Helmets, Accidents and NOT Removing a Helmet

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Psamathe
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Helmets, Accidents and NOT Removing a Helmet

Postby Psamathe » 8 May 2015, 12:34pm

Another thread made me think.

When a motor cyclist is involved in an accident I always understood you should NEVER remove their helmet (leave it to the professional medics).

So, if a cyclist is involved in an accident and (still) has a helmet on, does the same apply and should you never remove it and/or should you stop the cyclist removing it themselves if things are bad enough that the emergency services have been called ?

I don't think of cycle helmets in the same light as motorcycle helmets, and I can't see you'd want to remove it. So it's probably more a matter of the cyclist themselves wanting to remove it (in practice maybe - who knows).

More a general principle I was wondering about.

Ian
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Helmets, Accidents and NOT Removing a Helmet

Postby [XAP]Bob » 8 May 2015, 2:37pm

The rule is in place as a "never move the neck" if you can avoid it.

Cycle helmets would be supporting the head away from the ground, so from that perspective I'd say leave it alone...

Of course if you need to get to the airway then compromises have to be made...
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TonyR
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Re: Helmets, Accidents and NOT Removing a Helmet

Postby TonyR » 8 May 2015, 3:02pm

There is a big difference between the two. Taking a motorcycle helmet off involves a fair big of tugging and pulling. Undo the straps of a cycle helmet and it virtually falls off on its own.

maxcherry
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Re: Helmets, Accidents and NOT Removing a Helmet

Postby maxcherry » 8 May 2015, 6:34pm

But the helmet will still be in contact with what ever surface it is on therefore lifting the head away from the surface.
If you remove the helmet, the head will then move (which is not good).
I vote leaving the helmet on
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captain offensive
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Re: Helmets, Accidents and NOT Removing a Helmet

Postby captain offensive » 9 May 2015, 12:23pm

Agreed. Leave it on unless it is causing a problem. Indeed general First aid guidance these days is do as little as necessary. Stabilise the patient, male Sure that they are out of danger but otherwise leave it to the pros

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Cunobelin
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Re: Helmets, Accidents and NOT Removing a Helmet

Postby Cunobelin » 9 May 2015, 5:29pm

TonyR wrote:There is a big difference between the two. Taking a motorcycle helmet off involves a fair big of tugging and pulling. Undo the straps of a cycle helmet and it virtually falls off on its own.



Some fall off on their own during the impact!

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bovlomov
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Re: Helmets, Accidents and NOT Removing a Helmet

Postby bovlomov » 9 May 2015, 5:36pm

Cunobelin wrote:Some fall off on their own during the impact!

That's what's known as a 'feature'. It splits in half on impact to allow for easy removal.

irc
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Re: Helmets, Accidents and NOT Removing a Helmet

Postby irc » 9 May 2015, 6:40pm

This cyclist first aid presentation says don't remove a helmet unless the casualty isn't breathing. Looks to be by a qualified paramedic. Good enough for me.

https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/ ... ide=id.p36

Tonyf33
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Re: Helmets, Accidents and NOT Removing a Helmet

Postby Tonyf33 » 10 May 2015, 4:06am

A definite don't move the head from me, in rugby league players that a few years ago would roll an injured player over so they wouldn't swallow their tongue are now told not to move a player in case of a neck or head injury. Medic/physio is usually on the field in seconds and refs are instructed to stop players from doing this if they forget the old ways.

Albeit well meaning moving someone with a potential back/head/neck injury, in any way could have dire ramifications. If the person has suffered an obviously serious head/neck trauma and they are trying to get up/move about try to keep them from doing so and stabilise the head even if you have to hold it (& the helmet) with both hands until help arrives.

Thermostat9
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Re: Helmets, Accidents and NOT Removing a Helmet

Postby Thermostat9 » 10 May 2015, 7:16am

Psamathe wrote:When a motor cyclist is involved in an accident I always understood you should NEVER remove their helmet (leave it to the professional medics).

Not quite true, if the rider is not breathing (or airway is blocked and you do not clear it) they are dead anyway and in those circumstances removing the helmet may well be necessary.

Psamathe wrote:So, if a cyclist is involved in an accident and (still) has a helmet on, does the same apply and should you never remove it and/or should you stop the cyclist removing it themselves if things are bad enough that the emergency services have been called ?

I don't think of cycle helmets in the same light as motorcycle helmets, and I can't see you'd want to remove it. So it's probably more a matter of the cyclist themselves wanting to remove it (in practice maybe - who knows).

If they want to remove it, there is no reason you should need to intervene to stop them. The reason for others not removing motorcycle helmets from unconscious casualties is quite different to that of a conscious, mobile, post crash cyclist.

Psamathe wrote:More a general principle I was wondering about.

As a general principle, if you don't know what you are doing it is probably better not to do it. I would recommend taking a first aid course if you are interested though.

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Re: Helmets, Accidents and NOT Removing a Helmet

Postby Vorpal » 10 May 2015, 8:20am

First Aid courses these days mostly consist of CPR, dealing with shock, and calling emergency services. The list of things they tell you not to do is longer thatn the list of things they teach you to do. The amount of content in a first aid course has roughly halved since I first began taking them 30 years ago.
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Shootist
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Re: Helmets, Accidents and NOT Removing a Helmet

Postby Shootist » 10 May 2015, 8:49am

Tonyf33 wrote:A definite don't move the head from me, in rugby league players that a few years ago would roll an injured player over so they wouldn't swallow their tongue are now told not to move a player in case of a neck or head injury. Medic/physio is usually on the field in seconds and refs are instructed to stop players from doing this if they forget the old ways.

Albeit well meaning moving someone with a potential back/head/neck injury, in any way could have dire ramifications. If the person has suffered an obviously serious head/neck trauma and they are trying to get up/move about try to keep them from doing so and stabilise the head even if you have to hold it (& the helmet) with both hands until help arrives.


You cannot swallow your tongue. Try it. You just physically cannot. Placing someone in the recovery position is meant to prevent then from choking on their own vomit. If the patient is injured then movement would depend upon the circumstances. If someone was laying in the road and obviously choking on something then you have a decision to make.
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Tonyf33
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Re: Helmets, Accidents and NOT Removing a Helmet

Postby Tonyf33 » 12 May 2015, 3:20am

Shootist wrote:
Tonyf33 wrote:A definite don't move the head from me, in rugby league players that a few years ago would roll an injured player over so they wouldn't swallow their tongue are now told not to move a player in case of a neck or head injury. Medic/physio is usually on the field in seconds and refs are instructed to stop players from doing this if they forget the old ways.

Albeit well meaning moving someone with a potential back/head/neck injury, in any way could have dire ramifications. If the person has suffered an obviously serious head/neck trauma and they are trying to get up/move about try to keep them from doing so and stabilise the head even if you have to hold it (& the helmet) with both hands until help arrives.


You cannot swallow your tongue. Try it. You just physically cannot. Placing someone in the recovery position is meant to prevent then from choking on their own vomit. If the patient is injured then movement would depend upon the circumstances. If someone was laying in the road and obviously choking on something then you have a decision to make.

I know that, that was the misconception and reasoning as to why players/officials used to do it until better instruction came into the sport at all levels. The days of a player laying prostrate in backfield and the ref playing on are long gone thank goodness.

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Helmets, Accidents and NOT Removing a Helmet

Postby [XAP]Bob » 12 May 2015, 7:17am

Do they still teach CPR?

There was a time (about 18 years ago) that they were trying not to teach it 'in case you broke a rib'.

As our trainer said, alive with a broken rib for me please...
He'd administered CPR about 7 times, and only not broken a rib once - when the patient was conscious (mains shock had sent the heart into V.fib)

Crikey - I remember quite a bit of that course, really ought to update it though...
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
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rmurphy195
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Re: Helmets, Accidents and NOT Removing a Helmet

Postby rmurphy195 » 10 Jan 2016, 6:36pm

In a recent accident, my helmet was removed very, very carefully by members of the emergency services while at the same time supporting my neck. I was told firmly at the outset - and several times afterwards - that when asked a question, to answer yes or no but NOT SHAKE OR NOD MY HEAD!

So guess the answer is -leave it to the medic/firemen or whatever trained person is doing it.

NB the hat did something for me that no amount of statistics would have done - I still have it, with the yellow paint from the trucks bonnet on it! And I have my head too, in one piece, unharmed (apart from a bit of faint bruising on my temple that is)!
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