The helmets thing

This sub-forum all discussions about this "lively" subject. All topics that are substantially about helmets will be moved here, if not placed here correctly in the first place.
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mjr
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Re: So......this helmets thing

Postby mjr » 13 Jul 2015, 1:34pm

Bicycler wrote:Yeah, I worried about that sentence as I wrote it. Is it fairer to say that we do not wish to put pressure on others not to wear helmets?

That's fairer. While I might challenge or apply mild pressure, I would not want to use some of the heavy-handed scare tactics used by helmet enthusiasts such as the Ride Right Ambassadors, who used to hand out "organ donor" cards to people who rode casually.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: So......this helmets thing

Postby [XAP]Bob » 13 Jul 2015, 1:52pm

Sooper8 wrote:I've no real interest in the helmet debate but thought I'd bring to peoples attention that I know a number of schools that have , or are introducing, a rule that youngsters can't ride their bike to school unless they wear a helmet.

What are they going to do, make them ride home again?
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Phil Fouracre
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Re: So......this helmets thing

Postby Phil Fouracre » 13 Jul 2015, 2:04pm

Mjr - perhaps it would confuse them if we all carried organ donor cards anyway. Think I might just carry mine when I cycle in case I am approached by some buttock who has a go at me for not wearing a lid, might make them think?
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity

Mike Sales
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Re: So......this helmets thing

Postby Mike Sales » 13 Jul 2015, 2:15pm

Re organ donors. I have this plot outline, but can't quite see how to pitch it.

Driver on the waiting list for a new organ knocks down a cyclist.
After all the palaver is over he gets home and the phone rings.
Can he get to the hospital quickly? A healthy new organ is available.

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Re: So......this helmets thing

Postby TonyR » 13 Jul 2015, 2:32pm

Mike Sales wrote:Re organ donors. I have this plot outline, but can't quite see how to pitch it.

Driver on the waiting list for a new organ knocks down a cyclist.
After all the palaver is over he gets home and the phone rings.
Can he get to the hospital quickly? A healthy new organ is available.


Don't do it. It will only lead to calls for us to display our blood type and HLA numbers on our bikes so they can run down a matching donor. :wink:

TonyR
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Re: So......this helmets thing

Postby TonyR » 13 Jul 2015, 2:33pm

Vmlopes wrote:All this to-ing and frowing the simple fact is, until someone can categorically prove that helmets have no benefit however minor...........then I am afraid the media and such will always point to the fact that they must help in an accident.........simplez


Mandatory lucky rabbits feet and St Christopher's medals then?

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: So......this helmets thing

Postby [XAP]Bob » 13 Jul 2015, 3:17pm

My elephant repellent works really well in England...
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

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mjr
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Re: So......this helmets thing

Postby mjr » 13 Jul 2015, 5:04pm

[XAP]Bob wrote:
Sooper8 wrote:I've no real interest in the helmet debate but thought I'd bring to peoples attention that I know a number of schools that have , or are introducing, a rule that youngsters can't ride their bike to school unless they wear a helmet.

What are they going to do, make them ride home again?

Oh I so much want to read that story on a local paper website. The comments would be hilarious.
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Cunobelin
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Re: So......this helmets thing

Postby Cunobelin » 13 Jul 2015, 6:06pm

Sooper8 wrote:I've no real interest in the helmet debate but thought I'd bring to peoples attention that I know a number of schools that have , or are introducing, a rule that youngsters can't ride their bike to school unless they wear a helmet.



Ask for the risk assessment and the evidence base

They won't have either

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: So......this helmets thing

Postby [XAP]Bob » 13 Jul 2015, 7:20pm

Cunobelin wrote:
Sooper8 wrote:I've no real interest in the helmet debate but thought I'd bring to peoples attention that I know a number of schools that have , or are introducing, a rule that youngsters can't ride their bike to school unless they wear a helmet.



Ask for the risk assessment and the evidence base

They won't have either

Also it's none of their business... Outside the school gates they are under their parents care.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

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Re: So......this helmets thing

Postby TonyR » 13 Jul 2015, 7:33pm

[XAP]Bob wrote:Also it's none of their business... Outside the school gates they are under their parents care.


True but I've also seen attempts to bar access to the school grounds and bike shed if they're not wearing one.

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Cunobelin
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Re: So......this helmets thing

Postby Cunobelin » 13 Jul 2015, 7:51pm

I remember a school in Portsmouth who rather than dealing with the illegal parking, obstruction of the pavements and cycle tracks .... decided that cycling was unsafe and banned cycling to the school on safety grounds!

... and the saddest thing was that one if the kids banned became one of the youngest people to compete in a particular international triathlon!

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Cunobelin
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Re: So......this helmets thing

Postby Cunobelin » 13 Jul 2015, 7:55pm

[XAP]Bob wrote:
Cunobelin wrote:
Sooper8 wrote:I've no real interest in the helmet debate but thought I'd bring to peoples attention that I know a number of schools that have , or are introducing, a rule that youngsters can't ride their bike to school unless they wear a helmet.



Ask for the risk assessment and the evidence base

They won't have either

Also it's none of their business... Outside the school gates they are under their parents care.



I had a colleague who used to carry a child helmet and attach it to the child's handlebars for the walk across the school premises

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pjclinch
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Re: So......this helmets thing

Postby pjclinch » 14 Jul 2015, 10:59am

Sooper8 wrote:I've no real interest in the helmet debate but thought I'd bring to peoples attention that I know a number of schools that have , or are introducing, a rule that youngsters can't ride their bike to school unless they wear a helmet.


The primary my daughter's just finished had a travel plan which wanted to do that. I provided quite a large list of evidence from pretty obviously not "anti helmet zealot" sources and the idea in the travel plan seems to have been forgotten, with the head entirely supportive of me doing a Bikeability Scotland classroom session to go over the pros and cons of helmets with a foundation coming from Sustrans' current position statement:
We support the individual’s freedom of choice whether to wear a cycle helmet or not, and for parents to make that choice for their children.

Helmet wearing isn't a legal requirement in the UK, and the evidence is inconclusive as to whether it makes cycling safer.


Also pointing out the quite specific recommendation in the Get Britain Cycling report that schools should not have such a policy probably doesn't hurt either.

Another side of this was a drive for a permit to cycle requiring a signed agreement to do various things (typically including wearing a helmet). Seemed like a good bit of "common sense", but not unsurprisingly just ended up as a barrier to cycling and like most barriers it cuts things down. One of the fundamental points of making cycling normal is it shouldn't require special permissions or (beyond a bike) special equipment.

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horizon
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Re: So......this helmets thing

Postby horizon » 14 Jul 2015, 11:22am

pjclinch wrote:
Quote from Sustrans: Helmet wearing isn't a legal requirement in the UK, and the evidence is inconclusive as to whether it makes cycling safer.



This idea that wearing a helmet makes cycling safer (or not) is to me a funny concept (I'm not blaming Sustrans for using the term, everyone does).

Cycling isn't safer if your helmet gets used - it only shows that it hadn't been made safer. You obviate the need for helmets by making cycling safer. Helmets never made cycling safer - they just show that it isn't.

This may sound pedantic but it's often in the way these things get bandied about that confusion arises.
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