Advice required on choice of 2/3 person lightweight tent

[andrew_s]

Big Agnes “Green Emerald” Fly sheet went all sticky (21 days use in total)

That happened to a Terra Nova Quasar of mine, with the outer taking 20-25 minutes to peel apart every time the tent was pitched.

Googling told me that the problem was due to leaving the tent rolled up in its bag for a long time (several years), which meant that the plasticiser in the PU coating, rather than just evaporating, accumulated in the surface layer of the coating where it lay against the coating on the adjacent layer of the roll. Apparently PU coated tents store best jst stuffed in a box, rather than rolled.

[horizon]

Like the look but only 3000mm hydrostatic head on the fly sheet. Any rain issues?

AFAICS all the main tent ranges have a trade-off between weight and the 3000/5000 split (e.g. Vango Omega/Xenon, Robens Voyager/Osprey, Hilleberg whichever (I forget the names). I presume the 3000 on an expensive tent is a stronger, lighter fabric whereas a 3000 on a cheap tent is just cheap. 5000 is presumably good (waterproofing wise) but heavier.

If, as pjclinch says, the 3000 is totally adequate anyway then it won't matter - you've saved some weight. But it is a bit strange - you expect the expensive* tent to be lighter and more waterproof, or at least as waterproof, not less. If longevity is an issue (as also suggested), I'm not sure whether the gain is worth the sacrifice.

*We are talking several hundred pounds here.

[pjclinch]

See http://gb.hilleberg.com/EN/faq/why-did-your-hydrostatic-head-figures-change/ for one possible source of variation.

Somewhere I've seen a piece from Patagonia explaining testing variations that I think included HH, but my powers of Google-Fu are weak this morning and I can't find it, but it suggested different labs and different machines would give you different results. In other words, it's not quite as standardised as we might like.

Marketing departments like to quote numbers because they're something they can point at and say, "Look, ours is better", but they don't necessarily relate to actual real-world use and they try and reduce a complex engineered construct to a single material characteristic. Goretex is "guaranteed to keep you dry" on the basis of a 20K hydrostatic head, but if you put on a Goretex jacket and go out in wind blown heavy rain you'll get wet at the cuffs, hem and neck, their "guarantee" notwithstanding.

A tent is an elaborate construction. It's going to leak through the zips because they're not waterproof (waterproof zips on jackets have been a Holy Grail for years, now we've got them it turns out they weren't good as we hoped and in many ways storm flaps are more flexible and consequently better in actual use) and if there is a failure of waterproofing in the fly it'll almost certainly be on the seams. Seaming is a combination of seam construction/design, quality of sewing machine and experience of the sewer, but that doesn't distil to a nice figure like "5,000". The seams on my Hilles haven't been sealed, but are well enough made that they still don't leak. Why no seam tape? Seam take adds weight and weakens the base fabric with heat ageing, I prefer a well made seam.

Your extra several hundred pounds goes in to stuff like QA, wilderness testing, bombproof seams made by expensive sewing machines that minimise needle damage run by very experienced workers that only make tents, as well as careful material selection.

Pete.

[Jezrant]

We have a Hilleberg Nammatj 3 gt and it is very good, but heavy and expensive. A similar quality tent can be had from Helsport, for rather less: the new Fjellheimen Pro Camp 3. It is also a bit lighter. I just bought a Helport Lofoten 3 for my son, which unlike the Fjellheimen 3 is not really a three person tent, but he wanted the extra front entrance of this model. He took it to Schotland this summer, and that is precisely the kind of place where you want such quality tents.
But if it is just for camping in France in the summer, a Decathlon Quickhiker Ultralight will fit the bill as well, for about a third of the price. It even has DAC featherlight poles, just like Hilleberg and Helsport. The series also includes two small tents, one very light but very small, and one a bit more spacious as a solo tent, but also a bit heavier.
So it depends on where you want to go, and what budget your have. And there are quite a few other tents in this more basic price range, from the likes of Wild Country, Vaude etc. What you should think hard about is the basic design: do you want a a Scandinavian style design where inner and outer are connected, but where the inner is suspended from the outer, or do you prefer a US style tent where you pitch the inner (often with a lot of mesh) first, and than throw the outer over it. In wet weather I think the outer first design is to be prefered, but in dry hot summer weather a US style tent may be attractive.

You seem to be one of the few people who post on this forum and has a Helsport. I have a nearly 30-year-old Helsport Borgefjell (made in Norway). Cost a fortune at the time but it has held up remarkably well all these years and been through challenging conditions in Scotland and the Alps. I gather Helsport have moved production to the Far East. Have you noticed any decline (or improvement) in the quality of their tents since they stopped making them in Norway?

[Thehairs1970]

Getting tempted to invest in a Hilleberg. I have read that some people find the inner a bit short. On paper it looks fine 220cm and I am just under 200cm but how do people find it in real life.

Martyn

[willem jongman]

We have had a Keron 4gt when the kids were small and we are now using a Nammatj 3gt for the two of us. Yes the models with the sloping back are a bit short in practice (I am 1.77 and with a thick mattress and a bulky sleeping bag there is little margin). At your length I would recommend a Keron. They are great tents. For similar quality you may also want to have a look at the Helsport range as some of their models are a bit longer and/or have a less sloping back.

[pjclinch]

Getting tempted to invest in a Hilleberg. I have read that some people find the inner a bit short. On paper it looks fine 220cm and I am just under 200cm but how do people find it in real life.

I take it from the Nallo being mentioned up-thread and its inner being 220 we're talking about a Nallo...

If you're close to 200cm my guess is you'd have your feet (or face, you choose...) poking up in to the end as while it's 220 cm long at the ground it tapers to a point, so there's little effective space for much more than e.g. storing clothes at the extreme. To get around this it's better to have a steep end to the inner, so if you look at a Kaitum rather than a Nallo then you get the full length.

In diagrams, here's the Nallo GT...


and here's the Kaitum...


The overall footprints of the Nallo GT and Kaitum are about the same but the volume split between porch space and inner is different. The porch space has greater useful volume in the Nallo GT but you lose that in the inner, and the Kaitum has a decent vent at each end, the prospect of through-venting with both doors open plus, of course, the convenience of a door at each end.

Nallos are fairly widely stocked, so it's not too difficult to get a pitched example to crawl in to and see for yourself. That's a much better way than looking at diagrams. I think that the inner of the Nallo and Nallo GT should be the same, so whichever is available should tell you if the inner is spacious enough.

Pete.

[willem jongman]

The Nallo has a lower rear pole so the rear wall slopes even more than that of our Nammatj. Have a look at the new Helsport Fjellheimen as the rear pole is the same length as the middle one. That rear pole is also leaning backwards a bit, making for steeper rear wall. Finally inner length is 5 cm more, at least on paper. Betweem them, these things may make a meaningful difference.

[bikepacker]

I am 6'1" and never had a problem sleeping in a Nallo 2GT even on the rare occasions my wife was with me. However I much prefer the Nammatj 2GT with it's 3 same length poles and better doorway.

[MrsHJ]

I don't love my hubba Hubba. I think I lean away from fiddly constructions with various pole sections (all ore elastic threaded so it's not terribly hard work). For a 2 person tent though 2 crossover poles is probably my preference. I'm thinking about getting a footprint for it for the hubba hubba next summer in the USA.

One thing I don't think I've seen in this thread is where you are going to use your tent. I'm totally a summer and maybe late spring camper mostly in Europe so that conditions what sort of tent I need. I also rarely cycle tour in the uk-I prefer slightly warmer climes.

My hubba hubba purchase was conditioned by my plans to do the transam-so it's more of a hot weather tent with the gap between the fly and the ground and Based on my reading of various crazy guy articles it's free standing which I think should be useful for a USA transam.

[Thehairs1970]

Realistically, most of our touring will be in Europe. We've done some in the UK, Brittany, Holland and plans are afoot for the Alps and maybe the Rhine. Good waterproofing and a large porch with a lightish weight are the most important things.

[Jezrant]

One thing to consider carefully is the entrance(s). Some tents, like some Scandinavian tunnel types, have an opening on the side rather than at the front. A disadvantage of this style of tent is your view outside is very limited. Being able to take in the scenery without getting out of the tent is one of the little pleasures of camping (if it's not blowin a hoolie).

[crazydave789]

another is whether you're going to basecamp and live in the thing rather than just sleep in it and move on.

then the extra weight for comfort is a factor.

[Sweep]

One thing to consider carefully is the entrance(s). Some tents, like some Scandinavian tunnel types, have an opening on the side rather than at the front. A disadvantage of this style of tent is your view outside is very limited. Being able to take in the scenery without getting out of the tent is one of the little pleasures of camping (if it's not blowin a hoolie).

An excellent point. Which rather favours dome style tents with two entrances.

[Sweep]

another is whether you're going to basecamp and live in the thing rather than just sleep in it and move on.

then the extra weight for comfort is a factor.

+1
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