Small blow up tents?

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Gattonero
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Re: Small blow up tents?

Postby Gattonero » 8 Jan 2017, 1:30pm

khain wrote:
Gattonero wrote:
khain wrote:I doubt it would save much weight but might make putting the tent up easier, or maybe not since you'd need to blow it up. Presumably you just lay it out and pump it up. No faffing around with poles sounds quite attractive. I can't see it will be very solid though.


What's the faff in sticking one end of the tent pole into the other one, especially when the shock-cord is keeping them together (and nearly makes them already snap-in together) :?: :?: :?:

You just leave yours lying on the ground then? I generally have to insert them into the flysheet.


Where's the big deal in inserting the poles in the flysheet? :roll:
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Heltor Chasca
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Re: Small blow up tents?

Postby Heltor Chasca » 8 Jan 2017, 2:04pm

Gattonero wrote:
khain wrote:
Gattonero wrote:
What's the faff in sticking one end of the tent pole into the other one, especially when the shock-cord is keeping them together (and nearly makes them already snap-in together) :?: :?: :?:

You just leave yours lying on the ground then? I generally have to insert them into the flysheet.


Where's the big deal in inserting the poles in the flysheet? :roll:


I'm with you on this. I like my sticks. I feel grand and important when I unleash them, nunchuck-style.

My brain still hasn't come round to digesting these blow up tents. I haven't seen one in action or used one so maybe I'll eat my words one day.

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Gattonero
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Re: Small blow up tents?

Postby Gattonero » 8 Jan 2017, 2:11pm

If I'm carrying a tent then I want 100cm height for comfort, otherwise a tarp+bivy will give you great freedom and more than enough protection (albeit not bug-proof).

There is no easy way to achieve 100cm height using an inflatable pole. Strength per strength at the same weight and bulk comparison, a simple vertical alloy (or trekking) pole is far more stable.
The good point of an inflatable structure is than can collapse and bounce up again.
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khain
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Re: Small blow up tents?

Postby khain » 8 Jan 2017, 3:44pm

Gattonero wrote:
khain wrote:
Gattonero wrote:
What's the faff in sticking one end of the tent pole into the other one, especially when the shock-cord is keeping them together (and nearly makes them already snap-in together) :?: :?: :?:

You just leave yours lying on the ground then? I generally have to insert them into the flysheet.


Where's the big deal in inserting the poles in the flysheet? :roll:

I didn't say it was a big deal, though I have managed to break a pole when inserting them in the dark. If you like tent poles then I'm glad you're happy with them. I find them a minor nuisance but then I probably would find blowing up a tent even more of one.

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Re: Small blow up tents?

Postby PH » 8 Jan 2017, 7:31pm

PH wrote:One of the round the world record holders used an inflatable tent,

It was current record holder Mike Hall:
Mike camped out a lot and was delighted with the tent choice that he made.

“The tent was one of the best pieces of equipment I’ve ever used,” he says. “It was a Nemo Gogo Elite which is pretty much a bivvy bag with an inflatable hoop. It uses an air beam with an integrated pump.

“You blow into this bag and then squeeze the bag and it amplifies the pressure you can get, so you can blow it up in 20secs. It’s almost as light as a bivvy bag and you get fully enclosed to keep the rain and midges out.


http://road.cc/content/news/59716-inter ... record-kit

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Re: Small blow up tents?

Postby PH » 8 Jan 2017, 7:45pm

Gattonero wrote:I am very skeptic about using air as support for a tent.
The problems are many.
For a start, you need air-tight fabric which is going to be heavier than normal fabric. And had to be generously sized to achieve a decent rigidity, which means more fabric. Look at that tent image posted: over 1/2kg for something that is just more than a bivy bag, at 61cm highest point and 105cm widest point is not exactly roomy!
So you have a very small shelter, and still will not handle well a heavy downpour nor heavy winds.

Seriously, a Tarptent Contrail weights the same, costs less and can sleep even two people. Oh, and goes up in 5 minutes for real :mrgreen: plus being 100% bug proof too


Skepticism is OK but it need to be based on an understanding the technology and your post doesn't really have that. Why do you need airtight fabric? The airbeam is the only part that needs to be airtight and that's replaceable membrane. The only air tents I've seen have been large family ones, there's no problem getting them to a height that you can walk into, why do you think 100cm isn't achievable? I have seen these tents in a Cornish wind, they are at least as stable as the traditional models.
I haven't seen one that I think would suite me, I have no use for an inflatable bivvy, but when I see something I like I'll judge it on it's merits rather than some preconceived idea.

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Re: Small blow up tents?

Postby mattsccm » 8 Jan 2017, 8:33pm

Of course if it could use your spare inner tubes then that would be handy! :D

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Gattonero
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Re: Small blow up tents?

Postby Gattonero » 8 Jan 2017, 8:51pm

PH wrote:
Gattonero wrote:I am very skeptic about using air as support for a tent.
The problems are many.
For a start, you need air-tight fabric which is going to be heavier than normal fabric. And had to be generously sized to achieve a decent rigidity, which means more fabric. Look at that tent image posted: over 1/2kg for something that is just more than a bivy bag, at 61cm highest point and 105cm widest point is not exactly roomy!
So you have a very small shelter, and still will not handle well a heavy downpour nor heavy winds.

Seriously, a Tarptent Contrail weights the same, costs less and can sleep even two people. Oh, and goes up in 5 minutes for real :mrgreen: plus being 100% bug proof too


Skepticism is OK but it need to be based on an understanding the technology and your post doesn't really have that. Why do you need airtight fabric? The airbeam is the only part that needs to be airtight and that's replaceable membrane. The only air tents I've seen have been large family ones, there's no problem getting them to a height that you can walk into, why do you think 100cm isn't achievable? I have seen these tents in a Cornish wind, they are at least as stable as the traditional models.
I haven't seen one that I think would suite me, I have no use for an inflatable bivvy, but when I see something I like I'll judge it on it's merits rather than some preconceived idea.


Let me be still skeptik that an inflatable structure is nowhere near as rigid as a metal (or carbon pole) if we think of same weight and bulk.
Why would you ever carry something bigger and heavier?
But like said, there are advantages like being resilient.
It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best,
since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...

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Re: Small blow up tents?

Postby pjclinch » 9 Jan 2017, 11:14am

Gattonero wrote:
Let me be still skeptik that an inflatable structure is nowhere near as rigid as a metal (or carbon pole) if we think of same weight and bulk.


Rigid isn't all good. Remember that parable about the reed and the tree, and which one can survive the biggest blows? Once a rigid structure is overcome it fails catastrophically, not the case with an elastic structure like an airbeam.

As for bulk, an airbeam can be folded/stuffed in to any nook or cranny, while a 30cm x 9mm pole length needs 30cm x 9mm. There's more to bulk than absolute volume, and there is an awful lot of wasted volume in a typical pole bag.

As with most of these things, you look at your particular functional priorities and then you see what available things fit those best. Functional priorities are things like "has enough headroom for me and my partner to sit up at the same time", while the likes of "has rigid tent poles" is just a means to an end, not an end in itself.

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andrew_s
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Re: Small blow up tents?

Postby andrew_s » 9 Jan 2017, 8:38pm

For the OP, there's also the Nemo Morpho 2p.
It's out of production, so hard to find (hence the Dutch link). There was also a 1p version (1.9 kg), also single skin.

Putting up a large family tent with insufficient people can be hard enough that air beams are a significant advantage. For small tents, it's much less clear cut, and there hasn't been any really noticeable development. I've never seen anything I would consider on a space/weight/ventilation basis.

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Re: Small blow up tents?

Postby wheel71 » 12 Jan 2017, 4:41pm

Andrew S - I'm not looking for one just wondering about them as I only recently saw them. I didn't mean to cause any arguments :lol: I'm happy with what I have and don't use it often enough anyway. The bivvi bag with a hoop sounds a pretty good.

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Re: Small blow up tents?

Postby foxyrider » 12 Jan 2017, 10:21pm

I seem to recall a pole less tent a few years back that used an innertube as the inflatable bit, only one at the doorway. Never saw an actual example but have a feeling it was from Topeak.
Convention? what's that then?
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Re: Small blow up tents?

Postby PH » 12 Jan 2017, 10:44pm

foxyrider wrote:I seem to recall a pole less tent a few years back that used an innertube as the inflatable bit, only one at the doorway. Never saw an actual example but have a feeling it was from Topeak.

Might that be the Bikamper? It uses the wheel rather than an innertube
https://www.topeak.com/global/en/produc ... -bikamper-

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Re: Small blow up tents?

Postby pjclinch » 13 Jan 2017, 10:08am

PH wrote:
foxyrider wrote:I seem to recall a pole less tent a few years back that used an innertube as the inflatable bit, only one at the doorway. Never saw an actual example but have a feeling it was from Topeak.

Might that be the Bikamper? It uses the wheel rather than an innertube
https://www.topeak.com/global/en/produc ... -bikamper-


This struck me as one of those things where they got so carried away with the Great Idea they forgot to check the result was any better than the things they were using the Great Idea to be an improvement on.

So you end up with something that has no more room than a lightweight tent with a pole, and doesn't really weigh any less, but which can't be pitched without rendering your bike, or without rendering it immobile.
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Re: Small blow up tents?

Postby PH » 13 Jan 2017, 12:04pm

pjclinch wrote:
PH wrote:
foxyrider wrote:I seem to recall a pole less tent a few years back that used an innertube as the inflatable bit, only one at the doorway. Never saw an actual example but have a feeling it was from Topeak.

Might that be the Bikamper? It uses the wheel rather than an innertube
https://www.topeak.com/global/en/produc ... -bikamper-


This struck me as one of those things where they got so carried away with the Great Idea they forgot to check the result was any better than the things they were using the Great Idea to be an improvement on.

So you end up with something that has no more room than a lightweight tent with a pole, and doesn't really weigh any less, but which can't be pitched without rendering your bike, or without rendering it immobile.

All that. plus you’ve now got half a bike parked in the doorway and it takes up a larger area than a stand alone tent. I can’t see a single advantage except it might add some bike security, no one is going to run off with it while you’re sleeping.
I came across it when looking for which RTW record holder had used an air tent, seems Vin Cox used the Bikamper, though how many times I don’t know. I don’t suppose he had any use for the bike when the tent was up, but it would drive me nuts having to keep removing the wheel