Pyramid or tipi tents?

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Tangled Metal
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Pyramid or tipi tents?

Postby Tangled Metal » 11 Apr 2017, 12:05am

Does anyone own a tipi or pyramid tent? We're looking at getting a larger tent for cycle touring and the luxe octapeak looks interesting.

http://www.backpackinglight.co.uk/shelters-3/WG109.html

http://www.luxeoutdoor.com/eng/catalog-topic-gallery-view1.asp?id=1387&selfpath=/173

What's your opinion? Budget is pretty much the cost of this with the pole. It'll be for 3 man cycle touring, one is a young child. We like space. I'm 1.96m tall so the space in this is great. Weight looks like 3kg which is lighter than the tent it's replacing (extended tunnel tent). For the money it looks good value. Most at that weight and price are heavy or smaller.

mercalia
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Re: Pyramid or tipi tents?

Postby mercalia » 11 Apr 2017, 8:53am

well what if the young child knocks over the central pole...

Tangled Metal
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Re: Pyramid or tipi tents?

Postby Tangled Metal » 11 Apr 2017, 9:36am

I had a 2 man tent that used 2 poles too make a ridge tent. Those poles could be trekking poles or the supplied tent poles. Whatever you used there was a pole pocket at the top and the bottom. They held the poles very securely indeed. Bear in mind a near 2m tall lump like me is as likely to knock the pole out as anyone.

Besides i saw a couple using the smaller 2 man version at the weekend. As is my practise these days I walked right up to them relaxing under a tarp being used as a windbreak and started chatting. Turns out all my concerns over the pole being in the way, knocking poles out and rain getting into the inner hasn't been an issue for them. The door can be open in rain. The pole is in the way in their tent such that they could fit 3 people and their mats in if it wasn't there. BTW hang it from a tree if available and leave the pole out.

I didn't really see the bottom of the pole clearly but with the groundsheet pegged out the diagonal fly formed a stable structure. I'd reckon there would be an easy work around to guarantee the pole doesn't get knocked away if there isn't a pole pocket on the groundsheet that is. No matter what tents have been used with upright poles for longer than bent pole tents have been around. If an issue there's probably a solution out there already.

Mind you it is a good point. A young child does have tendencies to hang off things. Whether that's tree branches, monkey bars or parts of tents. It's a fair point and we will consider it.

Mind you our last tent purchase lasted less than 2 weeks before poles snapped and other failures. It now feels like you take your chances with any tent design.

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foxyrider
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Re: Pyramid or tipi tents?

Postby foxyrider » 11 Apr 2017, 10:21am

Bent pole tents have been around far longer than straight - back into prehistory in fact. One key element has always been lack of poles in the living space - even the good old Tepee follows that rule!

If this works for you that's fine - I'll stick to my bent pole open space tents.

(I have used a variety of ridge poled and centre pole tents over the years - the pole always gets in the way particularly when you are trying to get in / out rapidly!
Convention? what's that then?
Airnimal Chameleon touring, Orbit Pro hack, Orbit Photon audax, Focus Mares AX tour, Peugeot Carbon sportive, Owen Blower vintage race - all running Tulio's finest!

Tangled Metal
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Re: Pyramid or tipi tents?

Postby Tangled Metal » 11 Apr 2017, 12:07pm

Not strictly true. They were likely to be something rigid leant against something or other similar rigid items, poles you could say. They didn't bend in the way of a modern tent pole found in tunnel/geodesic/hoop tents. That is a more modern innovation.

Although you can bend wood the earliest human made shelters were lean to shelters according to current archeological understanding. examples of evidence backing this includes stones in rings and other shapes believed to be the remains of a shelter. The stones hold the poles in place as they lean against each other.

Of course i take on board your pole issue. My old ridge tent was a bind getting out. Not least because it was a single skin one and getting out often meant shaking the condensation off after a bad / humid night. Force 10 vitesse and that was the lightest tent i could afford at the time. Not bad at 1.3kg with the poles. A lot less after I'd used trekking poles and lighter pegs/guylines. I learnt management of condensation with that tent.

The central pole on a spacious 4 man tent being used by 2.5 persons doesn't give me that much concern about it getting in the way. Not ideal but compared to alternatives at the sub 3kg mark, well everything at that price has compromises. Small space (the msr tents at the sub3kg and £300 mark are too short in real use at 2.13m), too heavy/bulky (extended tunnel tents).

There are possibly issues most don't have due to my size. From experience i know a tent that's below 2.25m is not long enough for me. I'm either pushing against the inner tent with my feet or my head feels too close to the end. Not helped by switching to Exped synmat ul and the slopes of the inner tent.

One thing I've noticed by checking out a lot of tents over the last year and half there's a fair few tents with the inner draping from the poles. Last year we bought a vaude space IIRC which on paper and pitched at a tent show looked good for us. We bought it and test pitched it on nearly flat terrain. The drape of the inner was really bad and took a lot of the inner space away. I don't know how the tent show managed to pitch it without the sagging inner. It went back as did the extended tunnel tent after pole breakage and other defects.

These tipi tents are a bit different and that's why I'm asking if anyone has experienced them. The guy in the campsite i spoke to used to tarp it with his partner. They only use the tipi tent now it impressed them so much. He had the enthusiasm of a convert. I had that before the family when i converted to tarp use for solo wildcamping trips. I still miss a good tarp camp out.

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trilathon
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Re: Pyramid or tipi tents?

Postby trilathon » 11 Apr 2017, 4:11pm

The pole can always be moved at slight angle, to accommodate... some old RSF chap renowned for one crankin across the Cairngorms in winter showed me that on my Saunders tent many moons ago.

If thinking of a tipi and budget is an issue then this tent could be the ticket

https://www.worldbackpacker.co.uk/camping-equipment-c563/-c597/all-tents-c674/lone-tree-4-tent-p6602
Searching for, and camping in, places of antiquity and wild beauty. Former ironman, 3PCX, Rough Stuff Fellowship, fell runner, regional time trial champion and 20 odd years of cyclo camping around Europe.

dlv13
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Re: Pyramid or tipi tents?

Postby dlv13 » 11 Apr 2017, 4:26pm

I have a luxe hex peak , much smaller than what you are thinking of getting but i have to say i am a total convert to the single pole pyramid design , for a one person 1 .5 kg backpacking tent the usable space under the fly is massive ,i really cannot think of anything that provides so much room for the weight , so i would imagine that bigger would be even more so , . I was a bit unsure about quality as luxe tents are very cheap, ive had mine for 3 years now i think, and its holding up fine ,i did a home reinforcement job of the apex where the pole fits as this did not seem strong enough to me. but i believe the newer models have addressed this . i would not hesitate to buy another one , this design pitches fly first which seems to be getting rare with modern designs , a must for uk conditions in my opinion . As for the pole in the way not a issue as far as i am concerned if it is knocked over just put it back takes seconds and obviously done from the inside. there is a lot of strain on the pole which can sink into soft ground , so some kind of plate under the pole stops this ,or even a small flat rock .

Tangled Metal
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Re: Pyramid or tipi tents?

Postby Tangled Metal » 11 Apr 2017, 4:49pm

We originally looked at the Eureka lone tree 4 tent. Eureka is the budget brand of Nigor who make some very nice tents indeed. This brand tends to make copies of Nigor tents with polyester fabrics instead of nylon. Also pu coated. This makes them heavier. For example the lone tree 4 is the same design as the Nigor Wikiup 4. The difference is the fabric used resulting in almost a kilogram of extra weight. Some other tents of both brands follow this similarity too. The sentinel for example is a 2 or 3 man hybrid dome tent. Comparable to some msr/big Agnes tents in the 1.5 to 2.5kg range.

The lone tree 4 tent has one entrance and is a 4 man that's just about big enough as a 4 man, 240cm internal square with one corner cut out for the doorway / porch. The octapeak is a slightly bigger 4 man with 2 entrances. Well 233cm square with one direction 305cm at the widest. Overall outer dimensions are about 340cm square for octapeak and 290cm square for lone tree.

The weight is 600g lighter for the larger octapeak because of the nylon used.

You can get footplates for the pole from backpacking light who supply the octapeak. Lone tree is £190 at Cotswold outdoors and I can get 15% off too.

Tangled Metal
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Re: Pyramid or tipi tents?

Postby Tangled Metal » 11 Apr 2017, 10:05pm

Just looked at the luxe octapeak again. The photographs appear to show that the pole goes through a sleeve in the groundsheet. It rests on the ground and The sleeve is to the same height as the bathtub groundsheet sides. I suspect this means it's less likely to move.

The pole itself is made out of 16 and 28mm diameter sections. I guess normal tarp poles aren't strong enough.

mercalia
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Re: Pyramid or tipi tents?

Postby mercalia » 12 Apr 2017, 7:50am

also if ground is not flat you could roll over and knock pole over?

or any one who is an active sleeper?

don't think tipi tents good idea unless real tipi like the usa Indians did it with "external" frame??

re ridge tents my conquest uses an A pole so avoids the cant get out fast issue
Last edited by mercalia on 12 Apr 2017, 8:11am, edited 1 time in total.

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Heltor Chasca
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Re: Pyramid or tipi tents?

Postby Heltor Chasca » 12 Apr 2017, 8:09am

I owned a large Bell tent. The supporting pole is solid as it is being held by oblique compression of the guy ropes and tent material. It held up no problems in gales. This won't get knocked over from the inside.

mercalia
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Re: Pyramid or tipi tents?

Postby mercalia » 12 Apr 2017, 8:14am

Heltor Chasca wrote:I owned a large Bell tent. The supporting pole is solid as it is being held by oblique compression of the guy ropes and tent material. It held up no problems in gales. This won't get knocked over from the inside.


I think large ones are different if they are large enough then ok as u can easily keep away from the pole. all a matter of relative sizes v body size?

PH
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Re: Pyramid or tipi tents?

Postby PH » 12 Apr 2017, 8:20am

Tangled Metal wrote:Mind you our last tent purchase lasted less than 2 weeks before poles snapped and other failures. It now feels like you take your chances with any tent design.

One advantage with simple straight pole/s is the ease of repairability, in the unlikely event you break one it isn't hard to find something to splint it with, even in the wild.
I tried a Golite hex and didn't get on with it, I found the headroom deceptive, although the highest point was enough to stand at a stoop under it tapered of so sharply there was a smaller area with sitting height than my considerably smaller tent. The pole was never in danger of getting knocked over, it was always in the way. These things are a matter of personal preference, the couple I sold it to use it instead of their Hillie!

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Heltor Chasca
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Re: Pyramid or tipi tents?

Postby Heltor Chasca » 12 Apr 2017, 8:43am

You haven't forgotten you can dry your wet Lycra from the pole as you sleep have you?

Tangled Metal
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Re: Pyramid or tipi tents?

Postby Tangled Metal » 12 Apr 2017, 8:51am

I think this talk of knocking a pole over is more than a bit unlikely for several reasons.
1. The top is held in by the shape of the tent so can't move.
2. The bottom of the pole is stuck in the ground not resting on the slippy groundsheet. Chances are I'll have a bigger issue with it sinking into soft ground than actually moving.
3. Around the base of the pole is a sleeve that is there to maintain the height of the bathtub groundsheet. This should prevent significant movement.
4. From my personal experience of using a single skin, two pole ridge tent a well pitched and above all well pegged out tent will result in poles that are actually harder to move than expected. I'm not exactly a small guy at well over 6 foot. I hit this tent pole every time i got out or in the door. I knocked the pole over very infrequently despite giving it some very heavy knocks. I once managed to knock the pole over at the foot end but that v was because it was put up in the dark and i had missed the pocket on the groundsheet It goes into. This tent has s big pocket or sleeve. Unlikely to be missed.

The only issue I reckon with the pole is tree fact it's right in the middle. I really can't see how it can be knocked over since it's held in at both ends. Bending i can see is a risk but from my experience of camping with kids that risk is the same or less than bending or snapping poles on other styles of tents. Tunnel tent poles make for good goal posts in a child's eye! And if you're as good at football as my family the posts are going to get hit more than the goal. PS I try to stop football against the tent but a willful child and even worse other half...

Headroom with the triangular cross section i can see is the big issue with pyramid or tipi tents. As I always explain to non-camping friends and family, I'm 6'5" tall i don't expect to be ok sitting up. I slump in every backpacking sized tent I've ever been in. Without a doubt I'll be able to sit up somewhere in a tipi the size of the octapeak. Whether i do is another point. If it is going to be like last year I'll probably be lying down in the tent or doing something anyway.

We've not decided whether to go for it yet. The big thing stopping us is how it's direct sales only through BPL-UK. There's no way to see it pitched before buying. I'm not sure they'll let us trial pitch one and return it if we change our minds. Cotswolds let us do that last year.