Snugpak sleeping bags?

[Sweep]

Anyone got any views on them?

They seem quite well priced but I maybe have the idea that they are not as warm/thermally efficient as they could be and also possibly that they are a bit bulky.

Yes I gather that they are used by the military/british army but that isn't necessarily a total recommendation in view of the government's record of care for its soldiers on the equipment front.

And of course a young squaddie is doubtless a lot tougher than me.

[Gattonero]

Just look at your local PC Constable wearing a s/s shirt in december....

Btw, I know not everyone can, but DIY is a great way to make good things at low cost. Synthetic insulation can be easy to work with, a quilt is perfectly doable by any good mum with sewing skills

[bikepacker]

I have a Snugpack Travelpack 1: http://www.snugpak.com/outdoor/sleeping ... ravelpak-1

I use it as a summer bag for camping or a bunkhouse bag where none is supplied. It is a nice well made bag.

[pjclinch]

Our sproggen use Snugpak synthetics most of the time they use sleeping bags. We've been pleased with them at the price.

[trilathon]

usually they aren't super light weight, or compact but the price reflects that, they are bomber, do the job and areinexpensive and long lasting and a firm favourite with ex military ( i'm reasonably sure they kit out the SAS, so not sure where you got the idea they aren't up to the job )

I've have used one ( a summer, one season, 900g still costs £40) for 20 years and just replaced it with something 5 times the price and 2/3 the weight and really, I should have just re bought.

[Sweep]

Thanks for the reply triathlon.

and vote upwards.

With regards to:

}}( i'm reasonably sure they kit out the SAS, so not sure where you got the idea they aren't up to the job )

As I said, the Brit army doesn't NECESSARILY have the best record on equiping its soldiers/taking care of them. Witness multiple reports of soldiers buying their own kit. And if I reckon I am a wimp compared to the average young squaddie I am but a flea to a member of the SAS. Who are probably trained to sleep on knives.

But thanks for the reply/info/views - much appreciated.

Other views welcomed.

[trilathon]

standard practice to run down the forces in peace time and then there's a certain logististical lag to purse strings and process to equip everyone when big business wants some new markets to exploit. The kit itself is ok, I use a standard issue bivi bag, it cost £30 and you buy the commercial equivalent from Rab or terra nova for £200-£300. There's a host of long term youtube reviews on most of the issue kit.

I've competed in many events alongside most of the various arms of the forces and apart from the obvious ability to kill and technical specialities, they aren't any different from anyone else doing an endurance activity, given they are well trained and eager enough. If the kit was crap the soldier would be less efficient, useless or dead and the specifier needing to answer serious questions. You can't do anything effectively with hypothermia.

[Sweep]

I have an army issue bivi bag as well triathlon - great big green thing - it's great though I do seem to have a bit of an issue with internal condensation - something for another thread maybe.

[pjclinch]

I have an army issue bivi bag as well triathlon - great big green thing - it's great though I do seem to have a bit of an issue with internal condensation - something for another thread maybe.

Or some thread drift here...

The Perfect Bivvi Bag is a figment of the imagination of various marketing departments, in much the same way as the Perfect Breathable Waterproof Jacket, but with some extra points too. The bigger it is the easier it is to get comfy and possibly bring some extra kit in, but the more air inside the more the vapour pressure of outgoing vapour will drop before it has to get through the material, so the more likely it is to condense instead.
And it remains the case that if it's really wet outside with high relative humidity you're on something of a hiding to nothing. If there's a lot of dew outside, with water condensing out of the air on to any surface going, it's going to be pretty hard to push vapour through your bag rather than have it condense itself, especially as you won't be putting out much heat being (a) asleep and (b) well insulated by your sleeping bag.

Marketing departments like to kid us (and probably themselves) that if you just have their New! Improved! miracle fabric (which was already close to perfect in the last several versions judging from the marketing copy) and open a small vent somewhere the laws of nature will somehow be suspended and condensation will no longer happen. But it will, because physics.

Pete.

[Sweep]

ah thanks for that pj.

Very interesting/informative.

And at the risk of more drift, - I have been wondering whether to go for a down sleeping bag at some point in the future.

Since I gather that these bags have an issue with getting wet (though I know there are supposedly improved versions) is this condensation likely to cause issues for a down bag?

At the moment I use a very good (but somewhat bulky) Mountain Equipment synthetic bag. Performs very well. I have had condensation issues with it because of the army bivy but as I have only ever bivied for one night at a time I have always managed to air it over a farm/campsite gate or whatever before having to use it again.

Other opinions of snugpak also welcome of course.

[pjclinch]

And at the risk of more drift, - I have been wondering whether to go for a down sleeping bag at some point in the future.

Since I gather that these bags have an issue with getting wet (though I know there are supposedly improved versions) is this condensation likely to cause issues for a down bag?

There are a few things to cover here. There is a general perception that if down gets a teensy bit damp it will shrivel up into useless porridge, but you do need to get it properly soaked before it's no use and you won't do that with a night's light sweating. To help prevent that happening there are water-resistant shells and also the latest generation of hydrophobic treated down. Hydrophobic down dries out a lot quicker and shouldn't suffer so much from getting wet to start, the shells only really help from external moisture sources (particularly drips and spills).

However, even with "normal" down a night in a bivvi with a bit of a condensation problem isn't a deal breaker. Performance will be affected a bit, but not really that much, and the main point is you'll ant to make sure the bag has been thoroughly dried before it goes back in to storage after the trip. I've only ever used down bags for decades now, and while I'm not big on bivvying I do do it now and then and it's never been a problem.

Where you might run in to problems is using a down bag in a bivvi for sustained night after night use in humid conditions, because you end up gradually accumulating damp faster than it'll dissipate. Not tried it myself, so can't provide a proper evidence-backed answer.

It is worth remembering that while synthetics bags don't degrade as badly as down ones when wet (because, I guess, the air is trapped in relatively closed hollow fibres rather than open tendrils), they do degrade because water is an excellent conductor of heat and air a poor one. Whatever sort of insulation you have in whatever product it's better if it can be kept as dry as possible

Pete.

[trilathon]

I have down bags for both winter and 3 season ( haglofs and a Go lIte respectively ), primarily because of the bulk of synthetic ones, for summer though a synthetic one isn't really too big imo

[Gattonero]

...a summer, one season, 900g still costs £40)...

900gr is a winter one for me!
As I said a while ago, and surely is not exclusive my thinking, everyone generates a different output of heat: some people sleep "cold" and need lots of insulation, other sleep "warm" and need a lot less insulation.

With 900gr is easy to make a quilt with double-layer of 6oz/sqyd (200gr/sqm) Climashield Apex that I reckon would cope with a -3/5º for most people.
A summer quilt could be for up to +5/7ºc so one layer of 5oz/sqyd (160gr/sqm) is enough for most, and would make a 550-600gr quilt.

[pjclinch]

Some people do indeed "sleep cold". I used to own an ME Iceline that was rated at -25C. The only time in 7 years I spent the whole night without undoing the zip it was well below -20 outside, and my tent-mate was very cold using 2 bags. So a serious bag... I lent it to friends for use in summer on trips where I was using Dewline (300g fill rather than 950), who thought it marvellous and the only bag they'd never been cold in (sold it to one of them, the other got a Rab 1000).

Pete.

[crazydave789]

snugpak are good british made kit, had one of their civvy merlin 3 for 20 odd years, used the green ones as well, the jungle rated bag is the same as the merlin but harder wearing same with the rest of the mil spec bags. you can get them cheap on ebay since they became black bag issue for summer deployments.

the MOD got a lot better in the late 80s with kit, they looked at what the boys were buying and copied it with higher spec fabrics to take 20 years of abuse. a months solid military would destroy most things. if a company does a military version of something then the rest of the product line usually benefits