FORCE TEN HELIUM ULTRALIGHT 2

[malvandy]

Anyone else got one of these & what do you think.
With mine all was fine , absolute doddle to put up & take down. All fine on a designated campsite but got caught short one evening realised we were not going to make it to the next town due to being knackered & hungry, so into the woods we went for a bit of wild camping. The long & the short of it is , ground rough ish , very thin integral ground sheet resulted in tear. Should have put down an extra ground sheet. Lesson learnt. Thank jude it didn't rain for the rest of the tour.

[pjclinch]

"Ultra light" is one of those bug/feature things. All designs are compromises so there's no "correct" weight of groundsheet, but this illustrates why I prefer heftier than the lightest while not insisting on Force 10 Classic "battleship" gauge. If you can be sure you'll be on flat grass then very light groundsheets do make a lot of sense (though if it's very wet they're far more prone to condensation than thicker ones), and there is the option of an extra sheet if it looks rougher.

Pete.

[Sweep]

Sorry about the tear. Five pound tarp from B+Q is the simple answer. Often blue for some odd reason. Light, easily stuff able, also good for bivvying.

[mercalia]

yes some kind of under ground sheet needed - I use a sheet of polythene a local camp shop was selling by the yard from a roll. If it gets wet then this will get very muddy under neath - do you want the mud on your tent?. I am at the moment at Exford camping and it rained bad last night so quite a bit of mud around ( Since I am on my motor bike I also have a cheap £10 or so camping/leisure mat from Ebay on the floor, inside

[Gattonero]

I know it sound obvious, but I always spend those 5 minutes clearing the ground and making sure there is no sharp objects. 5 minutes spend before means hours of safe sleep.
To be fair, it takes a fair bit to tear some coated ripstop Nylon, it doesn't tear because of a small twig left under. If something really bad is left there, it will cut even a fairly thick tarp.

So yes, the best approach is always to clear the ground and use an additional groundsheet. I use some Tyvek sheet, it's cheap* and light

* just buy it from printing supplies, not from ultralight camping supplies

[Sweep]

I know it sound obvious, but I always spend those 5 minutes clearing the ground and making sure there is no sharp objects. 5 minutes spend before means hours of safe sleep.
To be fair, it takes a fair bit to tear some coated ripstop Nylon, it doesn't tear because of a small twig left under. If something really bad is left there, it will cut even a fairly thick tarp.

So yes, the best approach is always to clear the ground and use an additional groundsheet. I use some Tyvek sheet, it's cheap* and light

* just buy it from printing supplies, not from ultralight camping supplies

Have heard others sing the praises of tyvek.

If you have a good source gatto, please post a link.

[Gattonero]

I know it sound obvious, but I always spend those 5 minutes clearing the ground and making sure there is no sharp objects. 5 minutes spend before means hours of safe sleep.
To be fair, it takes a fair bit to tear some coated ripstop Nylon, it doesn't tear because of a small twig left under. If something really bad is left there, it will cut even a fairly thick tarp.

So yes, the best approach is always to clear the ground and use an additional groundsheet. I use some Tyvek sheet, it's cheap* and light

* just buy it from printing supplies, not from ultralight camping supplies

Have heard others sing the praises of tyvek.

If you have a good source gatto, please post a link.

I bought it in bulk and turned up to be a good price.
Can sell you some, send measurements required

p.s.
Tyvek is not uber-waterproof, I guess is 1000HH, but more than enough as protective groundsheet. Is not tear-proof either, but again, enough for the use: obviously gets pierced if you stab it and with a sharp nail or force with a big thorn, but does resist to flint and rock and small thorns. Bear in mind is 43gr/sqm so you can't compare with 200gr/sqm tarps and by the way, any damage can be instantly mended with gaffer tape (bonds very strong on it).
I've used mine for countless nights and is beginning to wear down, but never damaged or pierced during many wild camping adventures. It probably costed me 2p per night
Tyvek is a remarkable material, it's not woven so does not need any coating to achieve waterproofness, at the same time it does have some breathability which makes it suitable for garments, or a bivy bag too. But unlike other non-woven materials, it does not tear apart easy, nor does fail catastrophically like for example a Mylar "space blanket" (when this fails, it tears down end to end).

[Sweep]

Thanks for the reply gatto.

Will get round to measuring my B&Q special and then PM you for a quote.

From your reply I can't help but maybe feel that its only advantage over the above mentioned B&Q blue is its weight?

Is this true?

I am not really a weigh weenie.

[Gattonero]

...
From your reply I can't help but maybe feel that its only advantage over the above mentioned B&Q blue is its weight?

Is this true?

well this is 100% water proof? wont tear unlike cheap tarp material that has fibreglass strands in it ? hard to puncture? £7 for 3x4m. I haven been using the same sheet for 10+ years

http://www.homebase.co.uk/en/homebaseuk/heavy-duty-polythene-sheet---3-x-4m-622898

Yes, the difference is that Tyvek is about 1/4 of that weight, and likely 1/3 the size when packed.
A 2mt x 2mt of Tyvek weights about 190gr and packs down the size of a small pepsi can. I've tried many other "plastic" films/tarps and always found them too bulky for my use, as I tavel with two bags only.

Most "plastic" tarp only needs a small tear to fail big time, you could pull a small cut with two fingers and spread it end to end. Does not happen with the Tyvek, as it's a spun fiber it won't carry on the tear/cut unless is pulled relatively hard.

[mercalia]

well the polythene I have is unrippable - yes trying to do so will stretch that part but thats all. I have had mine for 10+ years. Better than the blue tarp material that has fiberglass strands in it? that rips and frays easily

[Gattonero]

Would be interesting to know how much does it weight per square meter; non-woven materials like films, either need some fibers as reinfocements or to be in suitable heavy gauge.

[mercalia]

well mine is 236x200 cm = 4.72 m2
weighs 563 grm

so 119gm/m2

so weighs 4 times yours. but is 100% waterproof and tear proof - of all the tent parts thats one part that should be 100% reliable with no corners cut as thats the part will take all the abuse if any. Could easily be rolled up and strapped to your bike, since it will inevitably get soiled with maybe slugs crawling around underneath dont want them in with your tent.

[Gattonero]

100% tearproof? It's all "relatively speaking".
Lighter than I thought, tho.

[mercalia]

100% tearproof? It's all "relatively speaking".
Lighter than I thought, tho.

I think i meant the 100% to apply to the waterproofness.

as regards tearing i dont think i could rip it just stretch where i try - i have no intention of trying super hard...

[andrew_s]

Lesson learnt.

Which one?
a) ultralight has its drawbacks as well as advantages
b) check the ground before pitching your tent
c) carry some tenacious tape or tear-aid to mend any holes in stuff