A liitle help and advise if I may. I am assembling a fantasy cupboard of lightweight cycle camping kit, and hope to actually get to use it next year. Never been 'proper' camping before, and I'll be 'on me todd'.
Tent , well I think I'll go for the Luxe Hex Peak V4a, when it comes back in stock, but not sure what sure of sleeping bag I will require, prob 3 season, and I'm 6'2". With the tent, some folks say get a cheap one to try, but the thought of sitting in a wet coffin without being able to move does not inspire me, so at £169, and ample space, I think it'll be ok. The bag tho' hmm, don't want to spend a fortune, lightweight, small pack etc. any clues of things on 'special' i should keep an eye out for. Its all new to me, so all advice welcome. thanks.
What sleeping bag? (oh not again!)
Re: What sleeping bag? (oh not again!)
I prefer down bags with silk liner - keeps bag clean, adds a little warmth and reduces need to wash the bag. Down is lighter and packs smaller. I've never had a problem with getting it wet, although you will be warned about this.
If you really are looking to assemble a fantasy cupboard good bags aren't cheap but with a little bit of care they will last well. My own favourite range is the Mountain Equipment Helium. Just had a look and the price seems to have risen since the summer, but shopping around may help.
I use a Helium 250 for really lightweight use, late spring / summer / early autumn only (with the silk liner) and this weighs well under 1 kg. I take a lightweight down jacket and tuck around the bag at night if it's cool. For a lot of the rest of the time, but not cold winter or altitude, I find the 600 perfectly adequate. Of course, the two can go inside each other and then comfortable 3 / 4 season, but I've assembled my kit over the years so the cost spread out.
The other thing to say is get a good sleeping mat. Lots of choices, lots of prices. When we were young and weighed little, karrimats were cheap and sufficient. Now we're in our 60s we tour with Thermarest Neoair mats - not cheap but they do the job very well. I also use these on mountaineering trips where they get sustained hard wear and have never let me down.
Good luck.
If you really are looking to assemble a fantasy cupboard good bags aren't cheap but with a little bit of care they will last well. My own favourite range is the Mountain Equipment Helium. Just had a look and the price seems to have risen since the summer, but shopping around may help.
I use a Helium 250 for really lightweight use, late spring / summer / early autumn only (with the silk liner) and this weighs well under 1 kg. I take a lightweight down jacket and tuck around the bag at night if it's cool. For a lot of the rest of the time, but not cold winter or altitude, I find the 600 perfectly adequate. Of course, the two can go inside each other and then comfortable 3 / 4 season, but I've assembled my kit over the years so the cost spread out.
The other thing to say is get a good sleeping mat. Lots of choices, lots of prices. When we were young and weighed little, karrimats were cheap and sufficient. Now we're in our 60s we tour with Thermarest Neoair mats - not cheap but they do the job very well. I also use these on mountaineering trips where they get sustained hard wear and have never let me down.
Good luck.
Dawes Galaxy 1979; Mercian 531 1982; Peugeot 753 1987; Peugeot 531 Pro 1988; Peugeot 653 1990; Bob Jackson 731 OS 1992; Gazelle 731 OS Exception 1996; Dolan Dedacciai 2004; Trek 8000 MTB 2011; Focus Izalco Pro 2012
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NATURAL ANKLING
- Posts: 13780
- Joined: 24 Oct 2012, 10:43pm
- Location: English Riviera
Re: What sleeping bag? (oh not again!)
Hi,
I like the simplicity but wonder at how it stands up in the field with wind?
Sorry to digress.
Tent-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKOJ2Td8f-E
yostumpy wrote:A liitle help and advise if I may. I am assembling a fantasy cupboard of lightweight cycle camping kit, and hope to actually get to use it next year. Never been 'proper' camping before, and I'll be 'on me todd'.
Tent , well I think I'll go for the Luxe Hex Peak V4a, when it comes back in stock, .
I like the simplicity but wonder at how it stands up in the field with wind?
Sorry to digress.
Tent-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKOJ2Td8f-E
- Attachments
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NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy - Some day Soon I hope
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.
Re: What sleeping bag? (oh not again!)
I'm the same height and large with it, I've never found a sleeping bag that I was comfortable in and a sure way to spoil any tour is by not getting enough sleep.
I bought a camping quilt and decent mat about a decade ago and they've been fantastic. Good ones are expensive, though there's more choice now than then, but it's cheap to try by just buying a rectangle sleeping bag you can open up and accepting the extra weight and bulk while you make your mind up. Don't skimp on the mat, that's where most of your precious heat goes and no sleeping bag does much to stop it.
I only started camping when it became impossible to string together enough YHA booking to make a tour. I bought everything I needed for £130 with the idea that I only needed to use it for 10 nights for it to have paid for itself. Once I'd worked a few things out and decided it suited me (Far more than I could have hoped) I invested some serious money in decent kit. Although it's all obviously better, I was fine with the cheap kit, I haven't needed the expedition quality equipment for the three season camping I do.
I bought a camping quilt and decent mat about a decade ago and they've been fantastic. Good ones are expensive, though there's more choice now than then, but it's cheap to try by just buying a rectangle sleeping bag you can open up and accepting the extra weight and bulk while you make your mind up. Don't skimp on the mat, that's where most of your precious heat goes and no sleeping bag does much to stop it.
I only started camping when it became impossible to string together enough YHA booking to make a tour. I bought everything I needed for £130 with the idea that I only needed to use it for 10 nights for it to have paid for itself. Once I'd worked a few things out and decided it suited me (Far more than I could have hoped) I invested some serious money in decent kit. Although it's all obviously better, I was fine with the cheap kit, I haven't needed the expedition quality equipment for the three season camping I do.
Re: What sleeping bag? (oh not again!)
NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,yostumpy wrote:A liitle help and advise if I may. I am assembling a fantasy cupboard of lightweight cycle camping kit, and hope to actually get to use it next year. Never been 'proper' camping before, and I'll be 'on me todd'.
Tent , well I think I'll go for the Luxe Hex Peak V4a, when it comes back in stock, .
I like the simplicity but wonder at how it stands up in the field with wind?
Sorry to digress.
Tent-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKOJ2Td8f-E
yes I saw that video, but that was a review of the 2014 model. Apparantly, looking at the web, Micheal, the tent maker, has increased the size slightly since then, to accommodate taller folk.
Re: What sleeping bag? (oh not again!)
By way of a starter for 10, I'll suggest a ME Classic 500 down bag.
(1100g, Comfort Limit -5°, £207)
A limit of -5° is about right for 3 season use, in terms of the tempeartures you are likely to experience, but although sleeping bags now have CE ratings which are pretty comparable between brands, how any one person feels the cold varies considerably - for example I've come across reports of requiring a Comfort rating (+2° for the suggested bag) of about -15° for any sub-zero use, and other people being happy with a zero-CL rated bag in -10°. Unfortunately, there's no real substitute for personal experience in this matter.
(Comfort Limit is for an "average man", Comfort is for an "average woman", Extreme is Danger of Death).
I'd recommend a full length zip, so you can use the unzipped bag as a quilt when it's warmer (IME, zipping up gains about 5-6°)
By paying more, you can save quite a lot of weight and pack size - eg a PHD Minim 400K cuts the weight of a -5° rated bag down to 585g, but you'd have to pay £458.
As you are 6' 2", don't forget to check bag lengths. If a bag is too short, you'll squash the inner side of the bag against the outside and feel the cold through the contact area (the feet, most likely). Unhelpfully, some makers give user height (eg Alpkit mostly aim at 5'11"), and others give actual bag length.
A down bag will be lighter, pack smaller, and last longer* than a synthetic bag of the same temperature rating
*example: I had a synthetic bag deteriorate from an initial limit of about -5° to about +5° over 2 years of use most weekends.
People worry about them getting wet, but even with older non-hydrophobic bags, a bit of dampness from condensation drips etc was OK; they had to get properly soaked to become useless.
(1100g, Comfort Limit -5°, £207)
A limit of -5° is about right for 3 season use, in terms of the tempeartures you are likely to experience, but although sleeping bags now have CE ratings which are pretty comparable between brands, how any one person feels the cold varies considerably - for example I've come across reports of requiring a Comfort rating (+2° for the suggested bag) of about -15° for any sub-zero use, and other people being happy with a zero-CL rated bag in -10°. Unfortunately, there's no real substitute for personal experience in this matter.
(Comfort Limit is for an "average man", Comfort is for an "average woman", Extreme is Danger of Death).
I'd recommend a full length zip, so you can use the unzipped bag as a quilt when it's warmer (IME, zipping up gains about 5-6°)
By paying more, you can save quite a lot of weight and pack size - eg a PHD Minim 400K cuts the weight of a -5° rated bag down to 585g, but you'd have to pay £458.
As you are 6' 2", don't forget to check bag lengths. If a bag is too short, you'll squash the inner side of the bag against the outside and feel the cold through the contact area (the feet, most likely). Unhelpfully, some makers give user height (eg Alpkit mostly aim at 5'11"), and others give actual bag length.
A down bag will be lighter, pack smaller, and last longer* than a synthetic bag of the same temperature rating
*example: I had a synthetic bag deteriorate from an initial limit of about -5° to about +5° over 2 years of use most weekends.
People worry about them getting wet, but even with older non-hydrophobic bags, a bit of dampness from condensation drips etc was OK; they had to get properly soaked to become useless.
Re: What sleeping bag? (oh not again!)
I have an ex army down filled bag but can never seem to squash it down small enough, seems huge, but it MUST go quite small.?? have to try a stuff sack.Is there a knack?
Last edited by yostumpy on 7 Oct 2017, 2:56pm, edited 3 times in total.
Re: What sleeping bag? (oh not again!)
I'd recommend a test-lie in a range if you can, or if not be prepared to order several and send back the ones that don't fit so well. Some manufacturers do extra-long versions.
Stuff-sacks... just stuff the bag in, don't try and roll it. Grab a handful, push it in, repeat.
Down bags are more in need of a good mat as bodyweight compresses the space out of the insulation under you. You're still better off with an insulating mat with a synthetic bag, but it's generally more important still with down. If you're going as light as you can then Neo-Airs take a lot of beating.
Digressing on to the face and foot space in the Luxe, I've used a Saunders Sapcepacker since the late 80s and they have similar issues. Doesn't bother me, gives lots of people the screaming abdabs, so as with bags I very strongly suggest a test-lie if at all possible. Crawling around a lightweight tent in person is vastly more informative than any number of plans, diagrams, photos and opinions. Again acknowledging that some things have to be mail-order, make sure it can go back at reasonable cost and don't rationalise keeping something you're not really happy with on the grounds that The Interweb Reviews Say It's Great.
Pete.
Stuff-sacks... just stuff the bag in, don't try and roll it. Grab a handful, push it in, repeat.
Down bags are more in need of a good mat as bodyweight compresses the space out of the insulation under you. You're still better off with an insulating mat with a synthetic bag, but it's generally more important still with down. If you're going as light as you can then Neo-Airs take a lot of beating.
Digressing on to the face and foot space in the Luxe, I've used a Saunders Sapcepacker since the late 80s and they have similar issues. Doesn't bother me, gives lots of people the screaming abdabs, so as with bags I very strongly suggest a test-lie if at all possible. Crawling around a lightweight tent in person is vastly more informative than any number of plans, diagrams, photos and opinions. Again acknowledging that some things have to be mail-order, make sure it can go back at reasonable cost and don't rationalise keeping something you're not really happy with on the grounds that The Interweb Reviews Say It's Great.
Pete.
Often seen riding a bike around Dundee...
Re: What sleeping bag? (oh not again!)
I would take sleeping bag ratings with a large pinch of salt. If you've never had a sleeping bag before it might be an idea to borrow one for a night during some cold weather to calibrate yourself against the stated comfort rating. For me in my 1 man tent with my sleep mat, anything labelled 0deg or above is just not going to cut it in relatively mild English autumn/winter conditions I might go out in. I think manufacturers assume you're young, you're wearing everything you've got, you've eaten well, it's cold but not damp, maybe there's two of you in the tent, and I bet they assume no wind so no air change in the tent.
For years I used Ajungilak Kompakt synthetic bag, I now have a Cumulus Panyam 600 down bag which is a really nice bag in my opinion, and doesn't take up most of a rear pannier.
For years I used Ajungilak Kompakt synthetic bag, I now have a Cumulus Panyam 600 down bag which is a really nice bag in my opinion, and doesn't take up most of a rear pannier.
Please do not use this post in Cycle magazine
Re: What sleeping bag? (oh not again!)
I'd suggest waiting for the next PhD designs sale and getting a custom sized down bag. At 6ft3 I fitted standard. Bags but the length was borderline in cold conditions when I had it up over my head. At 16 stone width was borderline.
PhD do bags in several lengths and widths. I have two long wide bags. One a Minimum 200 (200g down fill standard size, proportionally more in nicer sizes) weighs 700g. Rated to +5c I have used it on several nights at 0c on. .y current tour. Only just ok with a fleece top on and tracksters. But the bag is fine at the rated 5c.
Most importantly it fits. You,ok get one in the sale somewhere around £250.
Good earth to weight and very small packed size.
PhD do bags in several lengths and widths. I have two long wide bags. One a Minimum 200 (200g down fill standard size, proportionally more in nicer sizes) weighs 700g. Rated to +5c I have used it on several nights at 0c on. .y current tour. Only just ok with a fleece top on and tracksters. But the bag is fine at the rated 5c.
Most importantly it fits. You,ok get one in the sale somewhere around £250.
Good earth to weight and very small packed size.
Re: What sleeping bag? (oh not again!)
Depends on your budget.
Its probably the most single item that increases in price per weight / warmth rating.
Its probably the most single item that increases in price per weight / warmth rating.
Re: What sleeping bag? (oh not again!)
Lots of comments about getting the sleeping mat right, but any recommendations?
I’m doing a supported tour next year so not bothered about size or weight....hope I’m not hijacking the thread.....seems on topic
I’m doing a supported tour next year so not bothered about size or weight....hope I’m not hijacking the thread.....seems on topic
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NATURAL ANKLING
- Posts: 13780
- Joined: 24 Oct 2012, 10:43pm
- Location: English Riviera
Re: What sleeping bag? (oh not again!)
Hi,
Supported take a camp bed
Bags-
I have ended up with several of different weights.
If you are just starting out I would stay off the down type.........all that money and bag might be wrong choice, synthetic are cheap nowadays means that you could buy a whole stable for one down bag...............your not on a mountain expedition!
If you are big then there are bags which are 1 Mtr wide.
If bag lacks girth and has tight spots then you will feel the cold at this point.
There are bag extenders too.
Always a mat whether foam / pneumatic.
I decide on bag by studying the forecast and season.
Light tents are either draughty or flimsy or both, draughty means bag choice has to be spot on and will be difficult to gauge.
If your a weight weenie then nothing worn in the bag and if you do need a liner it just for hygiene.
mnichols wrote:Lots of comments about getting the sleeping mat right, but any recommendations?
I’m doing a supported tour next year so not bothered about size or weight....hope I’m not hijacking the thread.....seems on topic
Supported take a camp bed
Bags-
I have ended up with several of different weights.
If you are just starting out I would stay off the down type.........all that money and bag might be wrong choice, synthetic are cheap nowadays means that you could buy a whole stable for one down bag...............your not on a mountain expedition!
If you are big then there are bags which are 1 Mtr wide.
If bag lacks girth and has tight spots then you will feel the cold at this point.
There are bag extenders too.
Always a mat whether foam / pneumatic.
I decide on bag by studying the forecast and season.
Light tents are either draughty or flimsy or both, draughty means bag choice has to be spot on and will be difficult to gauge.
If your a weight weenie then nothing worn in the bag and if you do need a liner it just for hygiene.
NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy - Some day Soon I hope
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.
Re: What sleeping bag? (oh not again!)
NATURAL ANKLING wrote:If your a weight weenie then nothing worn in the bag
Bag temperatures are given with you wearing something.
Thermals do a good job inside the bag - thin, light yet warm. They add much more warmth than their weight. Warm socks help too, but they tend to weight more than their warmth.
I have many bags - some down some synthetic.
My ideal is a light weight bag, hooded, comfortable to - 5C with full side zip and separate zip for the foot base. This allows it to be unzipped for hot weather in various ways and yet used down to my minimum temperatures.
Still looking. I'm thinking of doing a walking trip with night time minimum temperature ranges from 25C to 0C ... so I'm thinking of two bags for this trip - one for the warmer nights and one for the cold.
I'd look here for an idea of 'good' bags (warning - they will cost you)
http://www.litekamper.com/sleeping_bag.htm
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Mats.
I'm useing a foam mat under the tent as a 'ground sheet' - helps prevent punctures. Then inside the tent an inflatable mat. This gets me the insulation of both and a backup in-case the inflatable one punctures.
Re: What sleeping bag? (oh not again!)
Hmm, what do folks wear in bed then? At home, I always sleep naked, even in v cold weather in a chilly bedroom. I find that my body heat warms the air in the bed v quickly, but if I wear a t shirt etc, I find I stay cold, as every time I move I get chilled by the cold air in the bed, as my body is not warming it up, but warming my t shirt, if that makes sense. Is this the same with bags?