Sleeping Mats

Specifically for cycle touring subjects & questions
mnichols
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Sleeping Mats

Post by mnichols »

I’m looking for a sleeping mat for a supported camping/Cycling tour through the Himalayas

So it will be cold and the ground will be rocky, but size and weight is secondary to a good night’s sleep

Any recommendations?

I haven’t been camping for thirty years and never on a bike and not at all in the cold

Was thinking of an old fashioned lilo on a mat, or something like this on a mat
https://www.alpkit.com/products/cloud-base/?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Espresso%2024th%20October%202017&utm_content=Espresso%2024th%20October%202017+Version+A+CID_4dc745dc003211c69513c6e4e69b3197&utm_source=Email%20marketing%20software
Outlaw13
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Sleeping Mats

Post by Outlaw13 »

I have used the Alpkit one for the last 2 years. Mostly in the summer though. The Alpkit stuff is generally well made. I use it in my sleeping bag to stop me slipping off the mat.
whoof
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Re: Sleeping Mats

Post by whoof »

I find that inflatable Therrmarest mats are comfortable (relatively speaking) my current one is a Neo-Air. A lilo might do you for comfort but they are pretty poor in terms of insulation. If you used an inflatable mat that had a good insulation rating on top of a foam Karrimat style base this should do you for comfort, warmth and will protect the inflatable from damage.

This link gives insulation ratings for some mats.

http://www.cleverhiker.com/best-sleeping-pads/
Aushiker
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Re: Sleeping Mats

Post by Aushiker »

As you going to the Himalayas I would be looking insulated matts (i.e., higher R value). That would exclude the Alpkit.
mercalia
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Re: Sleeping Mats

Post by mercalia »

Thermarest MondoKing - a very thick ( 4" ) but bulky mat R value 11.4

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Thermarest-Mondo-King-Isomatte/dp/B071NM1MW1

The one I have
[youtube]wVMR2K1tv7c[/youtube]

they now have a vertical side walls version that costs more ( I think the standard one maybe discontinued as no mention on theur website, but still available )

MondoKing 3D ( R value 11.4, I imagine the standard one similar)

[youtube]MjOdFeEHRhc[/youtube]

https://www.thermarest.com/mattresses/mondoking-3d-10

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Thermarest-Unisex-MondoKing-Sleeping-Mat/dp/B018APB3TI/ref=dp_ob_title_sports?th=1&psc=1

These are probably the best you can get but dont come cheap

They arent particulary heavy, just bulky

I have the standard one and bike tour with that
Aushiker
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Re: Sleeping Mats

Post by Aushiker »

mercalia wrote:They arent particulary heavy, just bulky


2.5 kg or 5lb 8oz I would suggest is a little more than "particularly heavy" :wink: I guess but it would be luxury :)

My Exped Synmat is 439 grams but at least packs small. A Therm-a-Rest NeoAir XTherm would be a better option from their range I would suggest. It weighs in at 490 grams and has a R value of 5.7.

My Exped packed up ...

Image

versus the MondoKing 3D

Image
mercalia
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Re: Sleeping Mats

Post by mercalia »

well comapred to Thermarest mats of yore they are light. I had an old one that after 20 years finaly had it - the material it was made of was quite thick and heavy and this mat was just a standard one. The mondoking made of similar material would be the equivalent of a Force 10 tent.

The guy is going on a supported cycle trip in a rather cold place, so I suppose weight not the most important issue. The op should spell out supported in what way, whether weight is much of an issue.

The op says heshe hasnt been camping for 30 years so is presumably no spring chicken, heshe might be shocked how bad hisher back wil be now with a mat that isnt very thick that might have been ok when heshe was younger?
Last edited by mercalia on 26 Oct 2017, 12:03pm, edited 1 time in total.
bikepacker
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Re: Sleeping Mats

Post by bikepacker »

I prefer the Exped at present I use a Synmat Ultralight. If you are on cold ground and not bothered about weight I would go for the Downmat.
There is your way. There is my way. But there is no "the way".
PH
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Re: Sleeping Mats

Post by PH »

mercalia wrote:Thermarest MondoKing - a very thick ( 4" ) but bulky mat R value 11.4

That's an impressive R value, even the Exped Winter Downmat doesn't come close, it's not something most people would consider carrying on a bike, but as that's not required here it looks a good choice. I also note from the vid that the insulation comes from internal foam, so I wonder if there's the possibility it'd still offer some insulation if unexpectedly deflated, something I know my Exped doesn't :?
Part of the criteria might be if there's plans to use it after the initial trip, If there are no plans, I'd consider hiring, there's several companies that deal with expedition quality kit. I was reading about someone who climbed Everest and hired everything from RAB.
mercalia
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Re: Sleeping Mats

Post by mercalia »

PH wrote:
mercalia wrote:Thermarest MondoKing - a very thick ( 4" ) but bulky mat R value 11.4

That's an impressive R value, even the Exped Winter Downmat doesn't come close, it's not something most people would consider carrying on a bike, but as that's not required here it looks a good choice. I also note from the vid that the insulation comes from internal foam, so I wonder if there's the possibility it'd still offer some insulation if unexpectedly deflated, something I know my Exped doesn't :?
Part of the criteria might be if there's plans to use it after the initial trip, If there are no plans, I'd consider hiring, there's several companies that deal with expedition quality kit. I was reading about someone who climbed Everest and hired everything from RAB.



well here it is on my bike - ( its the blue bag, bulky not so much as heavy)
click to enlarge
mondoking.JPG


For this litle trip I was using my Ketley single skin tarp tent -


single skin tarp tent -.JPG


One thing that the lady mentions in the YouTube video is about letting air out so you can sink into the mat a bit- that requires quite a thick mat in the first place, you wont be doing that with thin mats?
Last edited by mercalia on 26 Oct 2017, 12:57pm, edited 1 time in total.
PH
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Re: Sleeping Mats

Post by PH »

mercalia wrote:
PH wrote:
mercalia wrote:Thermarest MondoKing - a very thick ( 4" ) but bulky mat R value 11.4

That's an impressive R value, even the Exped Winter Downmat doesn't come close, it's not something most people would consider carrying on a bike, but as that's not required here it looks a good choice.
well here it is on my bike - ( its the blue bag, bulky not so much as heavy)

Which just goes to show you're not most people :wink:
Tangled Metal
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Re: Sleeping Mats

Post by Tangled Metal »

Beware of comparing R values. There are two main standards for testing R values and they're totally different. The American one and the European / rest of world one. The American R value is more than 5 times that of the EU or SI R value for the same warmth. I believe Thermarest is the US version. So 11.4 becomes nearly 2.2 in the SI R game, better than downmat 9 but over twice the v weight.

Exped use the European, Thermarest the American. Not sure about other brands. It's very misleading IMHO and with customers buying product from overseas via the internet more often it really needs to be standardized.

Both Thermarest and Exped are very good brands. My preference for cold locations would be Exped downmat. There really is very few mattresses that match their performance overall.
mercalia
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Re: Sleeping Mats

Post by mercalia »

Tangled Metal wrote:Beware of comparing R values. There are two main standards for testing R values and they're totally different. The American one and the European / rest of world one. The American R value is more than 5 times that of the EU or SI R value for the same warmth. I believe Thermarest is the US version. So 11.4 becomes nearly 2.2 in the SI R game, better than downmat 9 but over twice the v weight.

Exped use the European, Thermarest the American. Not sure about other brands. It's very misleading IMHO and with customers buying product from overseas via the internet more often it really needs to be standardized.

Both Thermarest and Exped are very good brands. My preference for cold locations would be Exped downmat. There really is very few mattresses that match their performance overall.


but doesnt the downmat require a special pump that adds to the weight - you cant just blow it up with your mouth, that would destroy the down inside? I did google the winter downmat and that with pump came up more than 2lbs in weight I think, half being the pump. Downmat seems rather fragile therefore to depend on?
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andrew_s
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Re: Sleeping Mats

Post by andrew_s »

I'll recommend a Thermarest Xterm Max, if you aren't worrying about the weight too much.
The regular, mummy-shaped, version is narrow enough that your elbows dangle off the sides if you lie on your back (or at least, mine do - doesn't really worry me, as I'm a side sleeper so it's only when I'm reading a book).
I've seen too many reports of Downmat baffle failures to recommend them, as although they are good about replacement, that's of no use if you are in the middle of the Himalayas at the time. (compare the results of googling "xtherm baffle failure" and "downmat baffle failure")

Note that any inflatable mat can puncture, so take a repair kit (Thermarest supplied some Tear-Aid patches when I got mine, or Tenacious Tape is very similar)

Tangled Metal wrote:Beware of comparing R values. There are two main standards for testing R values and they're totally different. The American one and the European / rest of world one. The American R value is more than 5 times that of the EU or SI R value for the same warmth.

The conversion is 5.7, so an XTherm has R = 5.7 US (sq ft * hour * deg F)/BTU, and R = 1.0 ISO (Sq M * deg K)/Watt. Fortunately the numbers are different enough that the application of a little common sense will resolve the issue. In case of doubt, Ultralightoutdoorgear convert the R values into ISO
Tangled Metal
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Re: Sleeping Mats

Post by Tangled Metal »

mercalia wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:Beware of comparing R values. There are two main standards for testing R values and they're totally different. The American one and the European / rest of world one. The American R value is more than 5 times that of the EU or SI R value for the same warmth. I believe Thermarest is the US version. So 11.4 becomes nearly 2.2 in the SI R game, better than downmat 9 but over twice the v weight.

Exped use the European, Thermarest the American. Not sure about other brands. It's very misleading IMHO and with customers buying product from overseas via the internet more often it really needs to be standardized.

Both Thermarest and Exped are very good brands. My preference for cold locations would be Exped downmat. There really is very few mattresses that match their performance overall.


but doesnt the downmat require a special pump that adds to the weight - you cant just blow it up with your mouth, that would destroy the down inside? I did google the winter downmat and that with pump came up more than 2lbs in weight I think, half being the pump. Downmat seems rather fragile therefore to depend on?

Nope there is a dry bag pump which is light and can be used as a dry bag within say a rucksack or panniers so effectively doesn't add any more weight than you might take anyway.

Personally I've never had any issue with thermarest or my synmats (similar design to downmats but with synthetic Insulation).

If you are worried about down inside a mat where you don't get much moisture then in take it you never use down sleeping bags neither. Personally I've not found down filled sleeping bags to be particularly fragile even in very wet conditions. You might have a different experience.

Whichever way you look at it a downmat 9 with dry bag pump is half the weight of the big thermarest. That's not a problem for the op but a lot of ppl for it a problem. Not sure what the bull of the big thermarest mat is. My synmat is smaller than a 500ml bottle. It's not as warm though the downmat 9 is bigger it's still rather compact.

Thermarest neo air is available in a cold weather format but isn't as warm as the warmer exped downmat I believe.

I don't own either but I've heard from ppl who go into northern Scandinavia in winter for "survival" courses who use downmats. Some are instructors others it's their hobby. Others use reindeer skins. Apparently they're very nice to sleep on and warmer still. If they interest you then expect to play a lot. Quality depends on age of animal, gender and time of year they were killed. Also advisable to get them siliconized.
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