tent types (1 skin,2 skin, 3 skin...)

[crazydave789]

when you say two skin many tents now have so much mesh it hardly counts as a skin but does aid with condensation and doubles as a free standing bug net in hotter climes.

there is no perfect tent, in summer you are happy in a coffin, in winter you want the room to sit up and do stuff. My favourite tent remain my north face tadpole, it isn't perfect as the porch is way too small and it's cramped for two but ideal for one, weight and pack size is about right though. I'd be happier with more room inside or outside but I'm used to it. if I could find a super light version of my old equinox I'd be chuffed to bits.

if you aren't sure then look on ebay for decent second hand kit you can always move on if you don't like it. there's nothing worse than spending hundreds on something that turns out to be a dud you can't get your money back on.

[crazydave789]

when you say two skin many tents now have so much mesh it hardly counts as a skin but does aid with condensation and doubles as a free standing bug net in hotter climes.

there is no perfect tent, in summer you are happy in a coffin, in winter you want the room to sit up and do stuff. My favourite tent remain my north face tadpole, it isn't perfect as the porch is way too small and it's cramped for two but ideal for one, weight and pack size is about right though. I'd be happier with more room inside or outside but I'm used to it. if I could find a super light version of my old equinox I'd be chuffed to bits.

if you aren't sure then look on ebay for decent second hand kit you can always move on if you don't like it. there's nothing worse than spending hundreds on something that turns out to be a dud you can't get your money back on.

[pjclinch]

when you say two skin many tents now have so much mesh it hardly counts as a skin but does aid with condensation and doubles as a free standing bug net in hotter climes.

Indeed. This is mostly a 'merkin thing, readily explained by an example when I was looking at a tent in a North Face factory outlet in San Francisco. "Would you want the optional rainfly?", I was asked...

there is no perfect tent

Indeed. Many design features are two-edged swords, so you want really light, but also really tough. You want acres of space, but you want a small footprint and not to get too cold in winter. You want it to be aerodynamic for high winds, but you want it to maximise interior usable space. And so on (and on, and on).

Hilleberg are widely respected in the premium tent market, and they don't make any "budget" models: everything is as good as they can make it (for their idea of "good", which isn't universal). They have over 20 models of lightweight tent, not including size variations, each of which represent a different "best compromise for someone".

Pete.

[Tangled Metal]

Pete - are you still not getting your commission?

I agree hilleberg are really good tents. I just don't think the cost matches the value i place on their design. Personally (and it is a personal preference) I would rather have a Lightwave or even a helsport. Indeed I do own a helsport for cycle camping with comfort (large porch but reasonable weight). Plus their service support is good as it's the UK retailer selling them / distributing them.

I will say this, Scandinavian tent brands do tend to be good. Hilleberg, Helsport, nordisk are three I think are pretty good. Although the last is a bit lower in standard I think (rate them in that order purely for design / quality but helsport switches with hilleberg for personal preference).

[Sweep]

I went through this recently and ended up getting the 3 man Vango Meteor 300. Its a little weight penalty to save cost (theres a 2 man lightweight version for 3 times the price!) but at 2.9kg its palatial, goes up really well, stands up to every weather I've thrown at it (including a storm on the sfomerset levels), and I've had no problems with condensation. I'm 5'11" and I can lie out at full stretch ands till have room either side for bags, food, etc. Very happy with this tent. I ummed and arrred about getting the 2 or 3 man version, but ended up going for the 3 man just for the extra room. I'm sure the 2 man version wzould be good though.

Three man tent for solo camping? Impressed. Have one 3 man tent but never camped in it. I didn't know that tent so your write-up was interesting. Somewhat surprised that what appears to be essentially a tunnel design stood up so well in what sounds like a severe stirm. Do you have any explanation for this.
On the lightweight/"heavyweight" decision I am sure you made the right decision. At this size of tent and with a bike to carry the thing I can never see any point getting the lightweight versions of the same tent.

[pjclinch]

Pete - are you still not getting your commission?

I don't get any. I figure just another 200 mentions and they might send me a pack of complimentary pegs...

I agree hilleberg are really good tents.

I'm using them as an example here as they're quite unusual in not having a lower cost line, and despite no corners being cut they still have a very big range because, as crazydave noted, there's no such thing as a perfect tent. But if your particular ideas about what makes a good tent don't line up at some level with Bo Hilleberg's, they're not really good tents.

I just don't think the cost matches the value i place on their design. Personally (and it is a personal preference) I would rather have a Lightwave or even a helsport. Indeed I do own a helsport for cycle camping with comfort (large porch but reasonable weight). Plus their service support is good as it's the UK retailer selling them / distributing them.

I've never particularly noticed Helsport to be any cheaper, to be honest! I'd probably struggle to justify a Hille at current proces, they went up pretty steeply after I bought the Kaitum, which is probably 10 years ago, and the Tarra was an end-of-stock bargain. When we got the Kaitum a Lightwave t2xt was a serious contender, but it was a relative pain to put up and I preferred the door-each-end setup of the Kaitum.

I will say this, Scandinavian tent brands do tend to be good. Hilleberg, Helsport, nordisk are three I think are pretty good. Although the last is a bit lower in standard I think (rate them in that order purely for design / quality but helsport switches with hilleberg for personal preference).

I imagine the ones exported overseas tend to be the top end. With the price overheads from high cost of living in Scandanavia I doubt it would make much sense to try and send the local equivalent of Eurohike tents to the UK.

Pete.

[pjclinch]

Three man tent for solo camping? Impressed. Have one 3 man tent but never camped in it. I didn't know that tent so your write-up was interesting. Somewhat surprised that what appears to be essentially a tunnel design stood up so well in what sounds like a severe stirm. Do you have any explanation for this.

There's nothing intrinsically weak about a tunnel design.



While they don't have the static strength of a generally equivalent geodesic, they can work on the principle that a reed may well do better in a storm than a tree, by being able to move around more.
A tunnel in a blow will typically be noisier, and our Kaitum moved around enough to generate drafts inside when perched on the edge of a Benbecula dune in a gale, but that's not the same thing as "will blow down".

Unless you're leaving it pitched in place for some time with a lot of snow forecast a well executed and pitched tunnel should take most things thrown at it.

On the lightweight/"heavyweight" decision I am sure you made the right decision. At this size of tent and with a bike to carry the thing I can never see any point getting the lightweight versions of the same tent.

Well, there's lightweight, and relatively lightweight, and ultra-lightweight etc. etc.
Hilleberg tunnels come in 3 different weights of fabric because not everyone really needs the sort of toughness in the pic here (and the lighter versions are still pretty tough). Lighter versions mean less weight to get up hills and less bulk to pack, and as long they're tough enough, what's not to like?

Pete.

[honesty]

The van go also has the benefit of gothic arches and their tension band system. So as long at it’s pitched securely the forces are better dissipated. The gothic arches have he added benefit of more head room.

[Tangled Metal]

Is that true or marketing speak for a sales advantage?

I thought Gothic arches where a way to manage vertical loads not necessarily horizontal ones like wind. So snow loading but not wind loading.

It seems to me to be a feature of their cheaper tent models not their higher end. There was once a force ten version of those Gothic arch tents supposedly a tougher and lighter version for more demanding conditions. They stopped making them. Perhaps no real advantage?

If you read the instructions for vango tbs you will find it says to not pull it tight. Basically I read it as tighten the straps or cords until they're not loose any more but not enough to form a rigid triangular reinforcement. Although I do believe it offers an advantage despite that comment above.

[pjclinch]

Is that true or marketing speak for a sales advantage?

I thought Gothic arches where a way to manage vertical loads not necessarily horizontal ones like wind. So snow loading but not wind loading.

Ah, I see someone else has the same concerns as I do.
Lightwave are very keen on these too, but while I wouldn't consciously avoid them as a mis-feature, I'm not entirely convinced they do any real good overall and will typically make setup just a little bit more of a faff than it otherwise needs to be.

It's great marketing though, suggesting that what has worked for cathedrals for hundreds of years is obviously directly transferable to your tent...

Pete.

[honesty]

I think like you say it’s more vertical than horizontal loads but with the Tbs adds some benefit horizontally as well. The main thing they do is give a bit more head room.

On the tbs I tightened then to remove slack rather than pulled as hard as possible. They do seem to have a benefit though. The tent feels more stable than without them.

My experience in constant heavy rain with 30mph wind gusts that I got no rain penetration and the sides didn’t touch the inner.

[Tangled Metal]

My concerns with tbs and Gothic arch are the arch shape could present a greater target for the wind and be a weaker shape for side, wind loading.

Also the tbs, I assume, is meant to give strength by making the arch more solid. From observation of geodesic and tunnel tents the round, non tbs tunnel absorbs energy from wind by flexing. It works very well indeed. The tbs may prevent this causing pole snapping issues.

A couple of mates camped out in seriously bad weather. One on a TN quasar full geodesic tent, the other in a hilleberg nallo 2 tunnel tent. After that night was out the geodesic didn't flex but it had a snapped pole the tunnel tent was completely undamaged. The wind changed directions so the tunnel tent ended up with side winds, as in from the worst direction possible.

[gloomyandy]

Interesting topic. I'll just throw in my thoughts. Pretty much all of my touring and camping is in NW Scotland and in particular on the Scottish Islands. As a result of this for me a good tent would have the following...
1) Be able to handle very high winds (I've been in some very big storms particularly on the Hebrides).
2) Keep midges out!
3) Have a porch I can cook in. (makes sitting out bed weather easier, and lets me cook in high winds)
4) Have enough headroom for me to sit up when using a chair kit (I've had to wait out bad weather a few times and this makes doing that far more tolerable).
5) Is easy to pitch on "wild" sites (so being free standing helps if I decide to move it to get a better pitch).
My current tent (a Terra Nova Voyager) ticks all of the above, though it would be nice if it went up outer first. My first tent, a Vango Hurricane was very good, but very heavy by modern standards and my Vango Micro 2 was a little on the small size at times. Both Vangos developed sticky fly sheets and lost their seam tape, but lasted pretty well. All of my tents have been 2 skin and have worked well. I'm not sure how well a single skin would work in terms of keeping the midges at bay (if a simple tarp design), or perhaps for sitting out a storm (condensation could be a problem?). I'm sure others will have very different priorities!

[Sweep]

On the gothic arch thing, i too have doubts/concerns about them.

Though i have at least 2 tents with them.

I'm no engineer, but something about them smacks to me of a cheat/late friday afternoon bodge to get the design/curvature to work.

Maybe they don't often break, but what if they do? What do you do then? Start metal bending in camp?

One of the things i like about the Robens Lodge 2 is that all the pole sections are straight. But apparently designed/specced to take the curvature (quite modest) that the tent design demands. I carry two spare poles of the same diameter and a hacksaw blade so can easily fashion a replacement and even easily buy more replacements mid trip.

As for the vango tension strap thingy (my spirit 200 plus has it) i remain confused about when i am supposed to deploy it. Sounds like a another bodge to me.

Pj, on tunnel tents bending/riding with the wind. Maybe your tents have better poles, but that smacks to me of flexing/flexing and progressively fatiguing.

As for very lightweight, what's not to like? Well as you have outlined there are several variables. And one is price. I would rather have the slightly heavier tent. I can always buy another for spares. When touring it seems to me that the lightest/most finessed product is not necessarily the best. I have lots of nice sleek cycle clothing that i wouldn't dream of wearing on tour.

Just my threpenceworth.

[Sweep]

Ps yostumpy, i have one of these never camped in so brand new that i could sell you for a consideration.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Coleman-c20333 ... B000PJML2G

Be better if you are lancashire way though.

Let me know by pm if interested, i'll leave it there.