tent types (1 skin,2 skin, 3 skin...)

[Sweep]

Ps gloomy andy, strangely i think it may have been your favoured tent that got me thinking about the issue of different versions/weights of the same tent. Seem to remember being in a cotswold shop and seeing the lightweight version and the sales assistant trying to convince me that it was worth the extra bucks. But i wasn't convinced. Your tent comes in two versions I think. Can I ask which version you have and any thoughts you may have on this issue?

[hamish]

I have/have had all kinds of tents... Including Vaude, Wild Country, Lightwave, MSR, etc But I have to confess that my Hilleberg Nallo2 GT is particularly good. I bought it second hand and it's an older (less vented) model. I paid £250ish which I recon is a bargain.

It's a simple design and there is nothing fancy about it.... But it just works. Easy to put up, seems to be fine in wind (I camped in Scotland during the stormy week a few weeks ago), easy to take down, lots of room, not heavy for its size and it has good fastenings and buckles, etc.

In fact now I have one..... I'd consider paying more for a Hille if I was buying a new tent.

[mercalia]

I have/have had all kinds of tents... Including Vaude, Wild Country, Lightwave, MSR, etc But I have to confess that my Hilleberg Nallo2 GT is particularly good. I bought it second hand and it's an older (less vented) model. I paid £250ish which I recon is a bargain.

It's a simple design and there is nothing fancy about it.... But it just works. Easy to put up, seems to be fine in wind (I camped in Scotland during the stormy week a few weeks ago), easy to take down, lots of room, not heavy for its size and it has good fastenings and buckles, etc.

In fact now I have one..... I'd consider paying more for a Hille if I was buying a new tent.

well it should work at that price new they cost £800

[gloomyandy]

Ps gloomy andy, strangely i think it may have been your favoured tent that got me thinking about the issue of different versions/weights of the same tent. Seem to remember being in a cotswold shop and seeing the lightweight version and the sales assistant trying to convince me that it was worth the extra bucks. But i wasn't convinced. Your tent comes in two versions I think. Can I ask which version you have and any thoughts you may have on this issue?

Actually I think it comes in 3 versions! The standard which weighs 2.15Kg (packed 1.88 min), the Superlite which is 1.48/1.38 and the Ultra 1.05/1.0. The Ultra lists at the eye watering price of £1600! Superlite £500 and the standard Voyager is £480.

I paid about £300 for my standard Voyager a few years ago now. I was rather surprised that the Superlite and standard ones have very similar prices these days. I'm sure that wasn't the case a few years ago. I did look at the Superlite, but it is a little smaller and has a few other differences (different zipping for the doors, only a mesh inner door), plus is just not as robust, so I opted for the standard model as it seemed to suit my needs better. So far I've been very pleased with it.

[hamish]

hamish wrote:
I have/have had all kinds of tents... Including Vaude, Wild Country, Lightwave, MSR, etc But I have to confess that my Hilleberg Nallo2 GT is particularly good. I bought it second hand and it's an older (less vented) model. I paid £250ish which I recon is a bargain.

It's a simple design and there is nothing fancy about it.... But it just works. Easy to put up, seems to be fine in wind (I camped in Scotland during the stormy week a few weeks ago), easy to take down, lots of room, not heavy for its size and it has good fastenings and buckles, etc.

In fact now I have one..... I'd consider paying more for a Hille if I was buying a new tent.


well it should work at that price new they cost £800

Yes they are expensive... But I didn't pay that.

But I think it is still noteworthy that they are very good because not all expensive things are better.

I suspect it had been discussed before but I camp for about 40 nights a year. If an £800 tent lasts 5 years then the cost is per night is just £4. That's not too bad. Yes you have to have the cash to buy it in the first place and a £400 tent would be even less per night. The only flaw in my logic though is that I have other tents I may use in the summer....

[Tangled Metal]

Regarding straight or pre-curved poles, I believe those in the know reckon pre-curved are the strongest. Less stress / strain being applied.

I don't know how true that is but the only tent poles I've had fail were wild country / terra nova tent poles that weren't pre-curved. However it failed when the pole cracked badly where the pole joint is. The inner peg was held by crimping the outer pole in three places. It failed at those places which had holes due to the crimping. It's their design for lightweight poles. On their better tents they use branded poles such as Yunnan or DAC I believe.

I would always buy pre-curved poles now. By pre-curved I mean each pole section has a curve to it. When pitched these poles bend but don't have to bend as much as the straight poles.

As far as sitting room goes, well I'm 6'5" tall. I've never had a tent I could sit up straight in apart from larger family car camping tents. For me stability, wind shedding, ventilation options but most importantly length. It's no good if the inner is 220cm. I believe you lose too much usable length due to slope at the ends. IMHO I need 230-240cm minimum length inside the tent according to specification sheet.

My current favourite tent is a helsport tunnel tent. It's an extended porch tunnel that's light for what it is, has really good length, width and height. It copes well with bad weather. Ventilation consists of a vent at porch end, another to the side of the porch and one at the back end. In addition there's a good design at the the end which has a quick release buckle that releases part of the flushed to ride up creating a low level vent which shouldn't let any rain or even much windblown snow in winter. It's designs like those I appreciate and even if it isn't much of an advantage it still indicates there's a good designer involved

[crazydave789]

poles usually go when they've not been assembled properly, easy mistake when you're in a hurry

[pjclinch]

Pj, on tunnel tents bending/riding with the wind. Maybe your tents have better poles, but that smacks to me of flexing/flexing and progressively fatiguing.

In theory, yes, but in practice with a well engineered pole of reasonable section means that folk take Keron GTs out in the sort of conditions you see in the photo I posted without worrying about the poles breaking. Field testing counts for a lot.

While pre-curving poles is one thing, I think the reason high-end manufacturers tend to use DAC is the care they take over the joints, which is in practice where failures almost always occur. Every now and then someone launches some pole in an exotic new alloy that will be (yet another) "game changer", and a few years down the line the game is the same, nobody much is using them any more and DAC still seem to be a benchmark.

As for very lightweight, what's not to like? Well as you have outlined there are several variables. And one is price. I would rather have the slightly heavier tent. I can always buy another for spares. When touring it seems to me that the lightest/most finessed product is not necessarily the best. I have lots of nice sleek cycle clothing that i wouldn't dream of wearing on tour.

Though to re-state, there's light, very light, and very very light. Back to Hilleberg not as an advert but simply because they're a good example here, lowest weight is actually well down on their list of design priorities (which is why they're not popular amongst weight-weenies). But that doesn't mean they're outrageously heavy. Having said that, the Keron tent pictured in the polar storm is quite a bit heavier than the similarly laid-out Kaitum model, which is still significantly tougher than most lightweight tents. I use a Kaitum for cycle touring. I'd sooner ride out an Arctic storm in a Keron, but that's not really my cycle touring thing.

Hilleberg Nallo2 GT ...
It's a simple design and there is nothing fancy about it.... But it just works. Easy to put up, seems to be fine in wind (I camped in Scotland during the stormy week a few weeks ago), easy to take down, lots of room, not heavy for its size and it has good fastenings and buckles, etc.

What a design like the Nallo illustrates well is that the devil is typically in the detail. In order that it's easy to put up and take down, part of the design is the rather fancy pole-foot holder/tensioner where most tents just have a much simpler eyelet. And the eyelet approach is fine most of the time, but in a real blow with just one person to pitch who has numb hands that sort of detail makes a real difference. How much is it worth in absolute financial terms? I'm not daft enough to try and put a number on it, but I'm glad I have it. The guys don't stretch or cut in to your hands, the guy-runners are the easiest to use there are... all the details suggest thought and years of tweaking.

Pete.

[hamish]

What a design like the Nallo illustrates well is that the devil is typically in the detail. In order that it's easy to put up and take down, part of the design is the rather fancy pole-foot holder/tensioner where most tents just have a much simpler eyelet. And the eyelet approach is fine most of the time, but in a real blow with just one person to pitch who has numb hands that sort of detail makes a real difference. How much is it worth in absolute financial terms? I'm not daft enough to try and put a number on it, but I'm glad I have it. The guys don't stretch or cut in to your hands, the guy-runners are the easiest to use there are... all the details suggest thought and years of tweaking.

^ this. The pole holder is brilliant. No pushing a pole through an eyelet or a pin down the end of a pole. Strangely enough for someone who likes moving on camping trips in both kayak and bike, I also don't much like putting tents up and taking them down... It becomes a chore when you are tired at the end of the day and slows you down when you want to be on your bike or the water! The Nallo is so easy I don't mind. That's something else you can put a value on but it is certainly valuable.

Hmmmm I sound like a Hilleberg endorsing nerd now...

[Sweep]

Am sure you are right about dac poles pj. Have admired them close up on quality tents. Though am pretty sure that I have also seen them on at least one pretty cheap decathlon tent.

If i decided to change a tent to DAC poles do you know a good source?

Am not doubting their quality at all but assume that they can still SOMETIMES give up the ghost. Do you carry a spare section or two?

If not are you confident of easily finding spares on tour? This slightly concerns me as i have the impression that many are not the common, and admitedly often wobbly, 8.5 mil poles.

[PH]

If not are you confident of easily finding spares on tour? This slightly concerns me as i have the impression that many are not the common, and admitedly often wobbly, 8.5 mil poles.

I had a DAC pole break when some clumsy drunk oaf fell on the tent*, did a temporary repair with a bit of a sleeve, and it's still there six years later. The pole no longer has the smooth curve it should, but it hasn't lost any function, though I may get round to replacing it at some point. Breaking a pole isn't something I'd worry about.
*OK it was me

[gloomyandy]

My Voyager (which I think has DAC poles) came with a repair kit, a short section of sleeving. So far I've been happy not to have to use it! But it sounds like they do work, which is nice to know.

Many years ago on a an extended late teenage camping trip, my self and my tent mate managed to lose one of the all important parts that forms the pointy bit of a force 10 A frame (and links it to the ridge pole). We spent a long time searching for just the right shaped small branch to whittle and form a replacement part from. It was very satisfying to have it still working well a week or so later! Today you could probably 3D print one, or get an Amazon drone to drop it off at your next camp site!

One of these!

[Tangled Metal]

I must admit the helsport tent we got had the pole pockets similar I guess to the hilleberg balloon ones. It's certainly a good feature for speeding up pitching.

Our tent failed at the joint. A well known fault with the crimped connectors. It's not poor manufacture but poor design. You're creating holes in the outer pole that forms a weak point from which cracks propagate. Looking at the broken poles the cracks all started from these holes.

This tent didn't come with a pole repair sleeve but by some pure luck I brought one from another tent. I located the two pole sections together and put the sleeve over before taping the ends of the sleeve. It worked for a week and half left of the trip.

I've never had any issues with breaking poles before that trip. You never think it'll happen.

[PH]

You never think it'll happen.

But you still had the forethought to bring a sleeve - good thinking

[Tangled Metal]

You never think it'll happen.

But you still had the forethought to bring a sleeve - good thinking

It was looking through my kit and it dropped out of a tent bag. Tent went back into cupboard and I found the tent repair kit on the floor later on. I don't packing for the trip and being lazy I threw it into the bag I was packing to go rather than finding the tent it came from.

It wasn't forethought but laziness that saved the trip. Luck pays out occasionally!