Decathlon lightweight tents

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nsew
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Re: Decathlon lightweight tents

Postby nsew » 26 Dec 2017, 2:27am

Gattonero wrote:
nsew wrote:
Gattonero wrote:
That depends on the style of camping one has chosen.
I can hardly afford 5 days in a row, and won't use them to stay 1/3 of this time enclosed in a tent/stationary somewhere, nevermind the comfort the tent would offer. My trips are for cycling and see things, if the area is known to have such bad weather then it's a deal breaker for me. After all, I am born and lived most of my life in a place where the sun shines 300 days a year and summer lasts no less than 4 solid months 8)


Italia. 4 solid months? North? I can see your days are quite busy https://youtu.be/G2tuYjo0CU8


I'm from the south Italy, summer starts in late May and is up until mid september- Obviously the peak is from mid-June until mid August, but you can soak in 30°c for four months, tipically there's no rain during this months. It gets busy with tourism here, lots of people work for the season only


I think many of us from the UK if arriving in southern Italy in March would call it summer! Cheers

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pjclinch
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Re: Decathlon lightweight tents

Postby pjclinch » 27 Dec 2017, 10:26am

Gattonero wrote:
pjclinch wrote:
Gattonero wrote:The use of 15 (fifteen!) pegs tells me that is not a good product. You will be severely limited in camping when you fin hard ground or many stones under the soil.


Here is a Kaitum 3, with one of it's 18 (eighteen!) pegging possibilities...


We're comparing oranges to apples with this.
18 pegs for a 3 person tent with -gasp- 5.1sqm of floor space is not that bad. But 15 pegs for a small single-person tent tells me that it's not a good design as it does not put the fabric in tension, so a lot of pegs are required.


Fair comment with the Kaitum, but not with the Spacepacker, which is a big for one/small for two single hoop with 10 pegs to pitch the outer properly and 4 more to get the inner in.

It was revolutionary when it was first introduced in the 80s and remains a great tent today (I'd replace mine with a Scarp if the Scarp had porches as big... but it doesn't).

Image

Gattonero wrote:The less pegs you need, the less you need to fiddle with hard ground or need to find rocks to replace pegs that become useless in the sand, etc.


This is true, but it doesn't make a tent that needs more "not a good product". Were it not for the success of the Spacepacker the Tarptent Scarp probably wouldn't exist.

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pedalsheep
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Re: Decathlon lightweight tents

Postby pedalsheep » 27 Dec 2017, 5:26pm

pjclinch wrote:
Gattonero wrote:
pjclinch wrote:
Here is a Kaitum 3, with one of it's 18 (eighteen!) pegging possibilities...


We're comparing oranges to apples with this.
18 pegs for a 3 person tent with -gasp- 5.1sqm of floor space is not that bad. But 15 pegs for a small single-person tent tells me that it's not a good design as it does not put the fabric in tension, so a lot of pegs are required.


Fair comment with the Kaitum, but not with the Spacepacker, which is a big for one/small for two single hoop with 10 pegs to pitch the outer properly and 4 more to get the inner in.

It was revolutionary when it was first introduced in the 80s and remains a great tent today (I'd replace mine with a Scarp if the Scarp had porches as big... but it doesn't).

Image

Gattonero wrote:The less pegs you need, the less you need to fiddle with hard ground or need to find rocks to replace pegs that become useless in the sand, etc.


This is true, but it doesn't make a tent that needs more "not a good product". Were it not for the success of the Spacepacker the Tarptent Scarp probably wouldn't exist.

Pete.

Seconded, Spacepacker is a great tent. Mine is still going strong after nearly 30 years and the twin porches are brilliant. I used to backpack with a large, often wet, dog who slept in one of the porches well away from my sleeping bag! It survived a gale on top of the Mamores quite well too.
'Why cycling for joy is not the most popular pastime on earth is still a mystery to me.'
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nick12
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Re: Decathlon lightweight tents

Postby nick12 » 28 Dec 2017, 2:47am

Is the spacepacker still in production. It does look a good tent and i like a good porch or 2 .

nsew
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Re: Decathlon lightweight tents

Postby nsew » 28 Dec 2017, 11:55am


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pjclinch
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Re: Decathlon lightweight tents

Postby pjclinch » 28 Dec 2017, 12:23pm

The original died along with Robert Saunders a few years ago now. I'd not seen that Peakarch before, it is very similar looking in the outer, but the original (and the larger "Plus" version) was symmetrical with equal sized porches each side. The other obvious difference is the original was silicone coated both sides of the fly (though a later model, the Mk 2, had a larger PU coated polyester fly).

The Tarptent Scarp (or Scarp 2) is in general a better looking tent as you don't get the Faceful Of Inner syndrome that characterises the Spacepacker when you lie down thanks to the corner uprights: doesn't bother me, but me wife really isn't keen. And it does have a lower peg requirement which is a Good Thing, even if not having it isn't a deal breaker. The real improvement the Spacepacker has over any of the other options is I've already got it, so at least for me it's effectively free!

Spacepackers do pop up on eBay from time to time. Mine's still fine after 20 years, my dad's Plus dates from the late 80s and is still fine. If buying second hand it's worth checking the exact layout because there was never a single standard. Some had light cotton inners, some nylon, inner mesh configuration was often different, some had valances, etc. etc.

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nick12
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Re: Decathlon lightweight tents

Postby nick12 » 28 Dec 2017, 3:51pm

I like that pekarch you linked nsew. Shame the poles are so long 57cm .ok straped to the top tube i suppose but i do like to keep the tent in one pack all together but one to consider.

nsew
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Re: Decathlon lightweight tents

Postby nsew » 29 Dec 2017, 6:55pm

As pj states, there looks to be a face full of inner, laying down in that tent. Unbearably so if using a tall mattress. I dunno. I wasn’t recommending it, just that it’s similar to the Spacepacker. There’s a person in Glasgow who has been trying to sell a lightly used Unna on gumtree for a couple of months. With groundsheet also. Tell him you’ve only got 350 to spare and you may have a brilliant cycletourer tent for near half the rrp. And a lifetime of future use.

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Gattonero
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Re: Decathlon lightweight tents

Postby Gattonero » 30 Dec 2017, 9:46am

nsew wrote:
Gattonero wrote:
nsew wrote:
Italia. 4 solid months? North? I can see your days are quite busy https://youtu.be/G2tuYjo0CU8


I'm from the south Italy, summer starts in late May and is up until mid september- Obviously the peak is from mid-June until mid August, but you can soak in 30°c for four months, tipically there's no rain during this months. It gets busy with tourism here, lots of people work for the season only


I think many of us from the UK if arriving in southern Italy in March would call it summer! Cheers


this was Boxing Day 8)
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Gattonero
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Re: Decathlon lightweight tents

Postby Gattonero » 30 Dec 2017, 9:58am

pjclinch wrote:
Gattonero wrote:
pjclinch wrote:
Here is a Kaitum 3, with one of it's 18 (eighteen!) pegging possibilities...


We're comparing oranges to apples with this.
18 pegs for a 3 person tent with -gasp- 5.1sqm of floor space is not that bad. But 15 pegs for a small single-person tent tells me that it's not a good design as it does not put the fabric in tension, so a lot of pegs are required.


Fair comment with the Kaitum, but not with the Spacepacker, which is a big for one/small for two single hoop with 10 pegs to pitch the outer properly and 4 more to get the inner in.

It was revolutionary when it was first introduced in the 80s and remains a great tent today (I'd replace mine with a Scarp if the Scarp had porches as big... but it doesn't).

Image

Gattonero wrote:The less pegs you need, the less you need to fiddle with hard ground or need to find rocks to replace pegs that become useless in the sand, etc.


This is true, but it doesn't make a tent that needs more "not a good product". Were it not for the success of the Spacepacker the Tarptent Scarp probably wouldn't exist.

Pete.


Again, a spacious tent that needs 10 pegs to achieve lots of room, versus a small coffin that needs 50% more pegs.
Of course the Spacepacker was a good design, in fact could use less than 10 pegs in emergency, and still offer good space.
But seriously, 15 pegs for a small tent it really means that the design is not good: if the fabric was keep in tension, you will need 6 pegs at most; but because the simplified the design, the fabric lays flat and unsupported, hence the need for all those pegs.

If you looks at another clever design, the TarpTent Notch, it does use catenary-cuts so the fabric is always in tension (and when needs to, easily adjusted from inside the tent) and the water does not pool anywhere, nor the sides will bow too much when windy.
And it only uses four pegs ;-)
Of course, to achieve this it needs a better design and complicate stitching: making a french seam on the curve of the catenary-cuts it's not easy on Silnylon, it's a very slippery material to work with.
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Thus you remember them as they actually are...

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Gattonero
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Re: Decathlon lightweight tents

Postby Gattonero » 30 Dec 2017, 10:03am

I think the Stratosphire is a very roomy tent, the headroom is especially good!

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pjclinch
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Re: Decathlon lightweight tents

Postby pjclinch » 31 Dec 2017, 11:52am

Gattonero wrote:Again, a spacious tent that needs 10 pegs to achieve lots of room, versus a small coffin that needs 50% more pegs.
Of course the Spacepacker was a good design, in fact could use less than 10 pegs in emergency, and still offer good space.
But seriously, 15 pegs for a small tent it really means that the design is not good: if the fabric was keep in tension, you will need 6 pegs at most; but because the simplified the design, the fabric lays flat and unsupported, hence the need for all those pegs.


You're moving the goalposts a bit here. The 10 pegs is with no guying and the outer only (purely the flysheet pegging points needed for a taut pitch), and if you only do the outer only on this one it'll be less than that. And, like the Spacepacker, you'll get away with less if you need to.

"If the fabric was kept in tension" means more elaborate poling, and if you've decided to go with one trekking pole only for the poling that then more elaborate poling really isn't on the cards. This affects any unipole design, but while it's an issue you avoid other issues (more poles, more elaborate poles, more points of catastrophic failure) and as usual it's "you choose, you lose". Pretty much all tipi designs fall in to this, but they're a very successful basic design. Not to my taste, but my taste isn't objective!

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Gattonero
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Re: Decathlon lightweight tents

Postby Gattonero » 13 Jan 2018, 11:23am

pjclinch wrote:
Gattonero wrote:Again, a spacious tent that needs 10 pegs to achieve lots of room, versus a small coffin that needs 50% more pegs.
Of course the Spacepacker was a good design, in fact could use less than 10 pegs in emergency, and still offer good space.
But seriously, 15 pegs for a small tent it really means that the design is not good: if the fabric was keep in tension, you will need 6 pegs at most; but because the simplified the design, the fabric lays flat and unsupported, hence the need for all those pegs.


You're moving the goalposts a bit here. The 10 pegs is with no guying and the outer only (purely the flysheet pegging points needed for a taut pitch), and if you only do the outer only on this one it'll be less than that. And, like the Spacepacker, you'll get away with less if you need to.

"If the fabric was kept in tension" means more elaborate poling, and if you've decided to go with one trekking pole only for the poling that then more elaborate poling really isn't on the cards. This affects any unipole design, but while it's an issue you avoid other issues (more poles, more elaborate poles, more points of catastrophic failure) and as usual it's "you choose, you lose". Pretty much all tipi designs fall in to this, but they're a very successful basic design. Not to my taste, but my taste isn't objective!

Pete.


Haver you looked at the picture above?
6 pegs and two poles.
Lots of space.

That's what a good design can achieve. Workout on the fabrica patterns rather than pegs or poles: any large square piece of fabric will sag.
It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best,
since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...

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Sweep
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Re: Decathlon lightweight tents

Postby Sweep » 13 Jan 2018, 2:21pm

Must admit I don't see it as a great problem if lots of pegs are needed. As long as you can quickly get the tent anchored/stable with a few pegs. No great problem to then bang a few more in. Only 3xception I would make is if facing banging pegs into gatto's home turf. Was once reduced to tears tdying that.
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Gattonero
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Re: Decathlon lightweight tents

Postby Gattonero » 14 Jan 2018, 12:08pm

Sweep wrote:Must admit I don't see it as a great problem if lots of pegs are needed. As long as you can quickly get the tent anchored/stable with a few pegs. No great problem to then bang a few more in. Only 3xception I would make is if facing banging pegs into gatto's home turf. Was once reduced to tears tdying that.


Precisely, try to peg down 10+ points on hard soil then see if it's not PITA or at least annoying. And again, if all those pegging points are needed, is because there's fabric that is not kept in tension. See the designs above, someone did the maths there, didn't just took a square piece of fabric "yeah, he'd be allright..." :roll:
It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best,
since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...