Decathlon lightweight tents

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pjclinch
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Re: Decathlon lightweight tents

Postby pjclinch » 15 Jan 2018, 9:53am

Gattonero wrote:
Haver you looked at the picture above?
6 pegs and two poles.
Lots of space.

That's what a good design can achieve. Workout on the fabrica patterns rather than pegs or poles: any large square piece of fabric will sag.


I have looked at it, and wonder if you've looked hard at the Spacepacker?

You could easily eliminate 2, 4 or 6 pegs from the design on the sides parallel with the pole. You could do that by squaring off from either the doors or intermediate corner points, but if you do that then you have not only less internal space (because the resulting hexagon would have less area than the duodecagon that is a Spacpacker fully pitched) but also less support between the pegging points so the result won't be as strong.
The Spacepacker is aerodynamic and strong because of the pole line end to end, and it gets some degree of strength side to side from extra pegging, which has a lower weight penalty than extra poling. Like most things in tent design, it's about compromises: a little more weight (and ironically more shaping from not using big square panels) in return for more room and more strength.

Having (just) survived a night near the CIC hut on the Ben in a sleety blizzard in a Spacepacker that would have trashed a lighter tent like a Statospire that kind of choice of detail is important to me.

You seem to have it in for sag, but while I'd agree it isn't aesthetically pleasing it can actually be quite useful, and look at a tunnel design in the wind and the reasons are clear. If you eliminated sag potential from a tunnel tent it wouldn't be able to bend in the wind, and you'd need a great deal more weight and packing bulk to achieve the same resistance to the wind taking it out for the same interior space.

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cnb
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Re: Decathlon lightweight tents

Postby cnb » 15 Jan 2018, 7:40pm

I was using a Stratospire 1 camping high in the lakes a couple of weeks ago..Wind was so strong it was difficult to stand..Strat held firm almost without a flutter...

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Re: Decathlon lightweight tents

Postby pjclinch » 16 Jan 2018, 8:48am

cnb wrote:I was using a Stratospire 1 camping high in the lakes a couple of weeks ago..Wind was so strong it was difficult to stand..Strat held firm almost without a flutter...




It's difficult to compare different incidents with different observers, but perhaps worth pointing out that the Quasar next door had developed a clear list to one side, ingrained in to its pole set, by the end of the night once the wind had died down in the incident on the Ben noted above. That takes pretty serious conditions. I've seen a lot of Quasars on a lot of windy nights, but that's the only time I've ever seen one given a built-in lean.

So good for your tent, but the bottom line is an aerodynamic profile with more pegging points will stand up better to abuse than a chunkier profile with fewer.

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cnb
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Re: Decathlon lightweight tents

Postby cnb » 16 Jan 2018, 11:46am

I agree..I have also been in an Ultra Quasar that was flattened in fairly strong winds.. The Stratospire I have is the solo which pitches very taught and the wind just seems to roll over it..I haven't used a Spacepacker but they seemed to be a popular tent a few years back..I did own a Backpacker 2 and also a Jetpacker..Both good tents but I prefer side entry tents now hence the Strat 1..I've also just treated myself to a Hilleberg Soulo. :)

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Re: Decathlon lightweight tents

Postby pjclinch » 17 Jan 2018, 9:51am

cnb wrote:I agree..I have also been in an Ultra Quasar that was flattened in fairly strong winds.. The Stratospire I have is the solo which pitches very taught and the wind just seems to roll over it..I haven't used a Spacepacker but they seemed to be a popular tent a few years back..I did own a Backpacker 2 and also a Jetpacker..Both good tents but I prefer side entry tents now hence the Strat 1..I've also just treated myself to a Hilleberg Soulo. :)


The Soulo is an interesting extreme case, as about the only solo bunker-class tent on the market. That it finds buyers despite being very expensive and actually quite small is testament to the fact that there are times when more strength can be a better looking option than less weight, even though light tents can still take quite a beating.

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hoppy58
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Re: Decathlon lightweight tents

Postby hoppy58 » 19 Jan 2018, 11:34am

..ha ha , I think this topic has deviated quite a bit from the original question which I asked! Incidentally the Decathlon tent is now listed as being no longer available. I don't know whether they are looking to replace it or whether it is out of stock.

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Re: Decathlon lightweight tents

Postby Gattonero » 21 Jan 2018, 10:30am

pjclinch wrote:
Gattonero wrote:
Haver you looked at the picture above?
6 pegs and two poles.
Lots of space.

That's what a good design can achieve. Workout on the fabrica patterns rather than pegs or poles: any large square piece of fabric will sag.


I have looked at it, and wonder if you've looked hard at the Spacepacker?

You could easily eliminate 2, 4 or 6 pegs from the design on the sides parallel with the pole.


Correct, because the SpacePacker is a good design that doesn't need lots of pegs due to a good design done in the first place.


pjclinch wrote: You could do that by squaring off from either the doors or intermediate corner points, but if you do that then you have not only less internal space (because the resulting hexagon would have less area than the duodecagon that is a Spacpacker fully pitched) but also less support between the pegging points so the result won't be as strong.
The Spacepacker is aerodynamic and strong because of the pole line end to end, and it gets some degree of strength side to side from extra pegging, which has a lower weight penalty than extra poling. Like most things in tent design, it's about compromises: a little more weight (and ironically more shaping from not using big square panels) in return for more room and more strength.

Depending on the design you can have poles or pegs giving room or strength of the whole structure. When you have big square panels and only one pole, then you need to use lots of pegs because there's no support. Think of a flat square tarp over a single pole: you can use it, but it's not perfect as one purposely made with catenary-cuts

pjclinch wrote:Having (just) survived a night near the CIC hut on the Ben in a sleety blizzard in a Spacepacker that would have trashed a lighter tent like a Statospire that kind of choice of detail is important to me.

You're thinking or you've tried? That tent is made by people that have spent thousands of nights in, and in bad weather conditions too. That is not a company that makes "marketing BS" but a company made by people that when they're not working they're hiking right in the tents they manufacture.
I have a lot of respect for those people that have been doing this job for decades :)

pjclinch wrote:You seem to have it in for sag, but while I'd agree it isn't aesthetically pleasing it can actually be quite useful, and look at a tunnel design in the wind and the reasons are clear. If you eliminated sag potential from a tunnel tent it wouldn't be able to bend in the wind, and you'd need a great deal more weight and packing bulk to achieve the same resistance to the wind taking it out for the same interior space.

Pete.


Like said already, rely on flex or create a non-movable structure? On a flat design like that "maxy-bivy" thing I wouldn't know what to choose, perhaps I'd try to get it sturdy trying to aviod the sag, and being made of Nylon it WILL sag and will you go out and tighten all those pegs then? Good luck
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Re: Decathlon lightweight tents

Postby Gattonero » 21 Jan 2018, 10:32am

cnb wrote:I was using a Stratospire 1 camping high in the lakes a couple of weeks ago..Wind was so strong it was difficult to stand..Strat held firm almost without a flutter...


Not a surprise, mr. Shires knows what he's doing!
What poles were you using?
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since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...

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Re: Decathlon lightweight tents

Postby cnb » 21 Jan 2018, 11:55am

I was using Leki Khumbu poles..I also have purchased the supports Tarptent sell for when I'm bike touring..Haven't used those in anger yet..

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Re: Decathlon lightweight tents

Postby Gattonero » 21 Jan 2018, 1:04pm

cnb wrote:I was using Leki Khumbu poles..I also have purchased the supports Tarptent sell for when I'm bike touring..Haven't used those in anger yet..


I see, so proper walking poles, I suspect they're pretty rigid?

Have not been inside a Stratosphire yet, how's the floor space and headroom? Looks very generous
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since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
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Re: Decathlon lightweight tents

Postby pjclinch » 21 Jan 2018, 2:13pm

Gattonero wrote:
pjclinch wrote:
Gattonero wrote:
Haver you looked at the picture above?
6 pegs and two poles.
Lots of space.

That's what a good design can achieve. Workout on the fabrica patterns rather than pegs or poles: any large square piece of fabric will sag.


I have looked at it, and wonder if you've looked hard at the Spacepacker?

You could easily eliminate 2, 4 or 6 pegs from the design on the sides parallel with the pole.


Correct, because the SpacePacker is a good design that doesn't need lots of pegs due to a good design done in the first place.


I suspect you have rather misunderstood.
The Spacepacker is a dodecagon so to be pitched properly it really needs all of those pegs. Robert Saunders could have opted for fewer pegging points with a hexagonal or octagonal plan needing consequently fewer pegs, but he didn't. So according to your thesis, it's not a good design, but according to decades of real world use it's very good indeed.

Gattonero wrote:Depending on the design you can have poles or pegs giving room or strength of the whole structure. When you have big square panels and only one pole, then you need to use lots of pegs because there's no support. Think of a flat square tarp over a single pole: you can use it, but it's not perfect as one purposely made with catenary-cuts.


I don't really see this is relevant, to be honest. I can't think of any remotely serious tent which doesn't use panels cut to shape to reflect the shape of the tent (such as those on the Spacepacker giving it 12 sides rather than six or eight). And all else being equal, more pegging will give you more strength. That's the basis of guying, after all. And where you do have big square sections (e.g., between the poles of an untapered tunnel) that's not necessarily a bad thing.

Gattonero wrote:
pjclinch wrote:Having (just) survived a night near the CIC hut on the Ben in a sleety blizzard in a Spacepacker that would have trashed a lighter tent like a Statospire that kind of choice of detail is important to me.

You're thinking or you've tried? That tent is made by people that have spent thousands of nights in, and in bad weather conditions too. That is not a company that makes "marketing BS" but a company made by people that when they're not working they're hiking right in the tents they manufacture.
I have a lot of respect for those people that have been doing this job for decades :)


If you could survive the worst conditions going in a Stratospire there would be no point in having tents like the Soulo. Conversely, if you needed a Soulo to go out in anything other than flat calm there'd be no point in tents like the Stratospire. The Stratospire is aimed at lightweight hikers in typical North American 3 season conditions (in as much as there is any such thing as "average North America"). Conditions like you'll find on Ben Nevis in the winter climbing season (why I was there) are not what the Stratospire (or indeed the Spacepacker! mine was right on its limits) was designed for. That doesn't mean they're BS tents, but just because they're made by a good company doesn't mean they're indestructible, because like every tent design they're compromises between light weight, strength and space. You can't have all of those maximised at once. If you could you'd own the tent market.

Gattonero wrote:Like said already, rely on flex or create a non-movable structure? On a flat design like that "maxy-bivy" thing I wouldn't know what to choose, perhaps I'd try to get it sturdy trying to aviod the sag, and being made of Nylon it WILL sag and will you go out and tighten all those pegs then? Good luck


It's not either/or. You can't make a completely rigid tent. Do that and it's become a caravan or a shed. And motion is not necessarily a bad thing, as the old story about the oak tree and the rushes shows. The rushes are blown flat easily, but get right back up. The oak is very hard to blow down, but once it's happened there's no second chance. Yes, nylon sags and sometimes needs the pegs redoing or the guys tensioning again. So that means that the Hilleberg Keron, with lots of unsupported nylon in those big square panels, is "not a good design"? You might not like it, but that's not the same thing as being "not a good design" as its track record in hard-core expedition work testifies.

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Re: Decathlon lightweight tents

Postby Gattonero » 21 Jan 2018, 2:21pm

You keep on posting about tents with the likes of 3 -if not 5- sqm floor space vs a tiny little tent that would use the same amount of pegs for less than half the floor space, I'd say is pointless to carry on
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Re: Decathlon lightweight tents

Postby pjclinch » 21 Jan 2018, 4:08pm

Gattonero wrote:You keep on posting about tents with the likes of 3 -if not 5- sqm floor space vs a tiny little tent that would use the same amount of pegs for less than half the floor space, I'd say is pointless to carry on


I'm picking examples of features where things you're saying are "not good design" features turn out to be okay. So you said lots of pegs where fewer can be used are a misfeature, and I gave you the Spacepacker which isn't actually much bigger than a Strat 2 but uses a lot more pegs. And it does something with those extra pegs beyond just having them because Robert Saunders didn't know what he was at, because they're not a misfeature: they give more strength and, combined with the shaped panels, more interior space.
You then suggested a general case that sag and movement is bad, and I picked a tent which can surely sag and move but it's not a bad tent. It simply doesn't add up that it's okay for a 3 man tent to sag and move but not for a one man tent to sag and move (especially as the extra size makes the 3-man sag and move even more!), sagging and moving is either bad all the time or not bad all the time. If you don't like the Keron as an example take a Lightwave t0 solo tunnel, which has... lots of unsupported nylon in a fairly square chunk between the poles. But it works.

You clearly have quite robust likes and dislikes informing your choice of tent, and there's nothing wrong with that. But that I don't like inner-first pitch, and can reel off a set of reasons why I don't like it, doesn't make a Quasar or a Hubba "not a good design". Like all tents they're compromises and no compromise is perfect, and also the case that their various design features create both positive and negative issues. It's not good vs. bad, but you choose, you lose.

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Re: Decathlon lightweight tents

Postby Sweep » 21 Jan 2018, 7:29pm

May be of interest to folks.

New apparently.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/263426414828?ul_noapp=true

will consider offers.

vid here which I haven't fully watched:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yi6A0F-d7Pk

though must admit to being a bit mystified by these things.

Get the idea that it is best used in dry weather or you can get mositure/condensation issues.

In which case why not just sleep under the stars in a bivi - must admit I do love drifting off looking at the sky after a good day's pedal.
Sweep

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Re: Decathlon lightweight tents

Postby thelawnet » 17 Mar 2019, 12:28pm

hoppy58 wrote:Has anyone any experience of their tents? ...the Quickhiker 2 person (green dome - MSR(ish) copy) looks amazing value at £79.00 - I like the fact that it's not horrendously heavy at 2.7 kg, has alloy poles, lots of storage pockets, 2 porches and it can also be used as outer only. Also the Quickhiker ultralight 2 looks a great buy at £120 - even has a DAC pole and again appears to be really well thought out.

https://www.decathlon.co.uk/quick-hiker ... 86006.html


I was looking at this.

Outer: 1060g
Inner: 830g
Poles: 600g
Bag: 83g (12 litres)

About 2.57kg without pegs

Something like the Zephyros 2 is lighter and not too much more money (£150) but it's a smaller tent.

https://www.terra-nova.co.uk/tents-and- ... os-2-tent/

The Vango Cairngorm 200 is £129

https://www.vango.co.uk/gb/tents/1077-c ... m-200.html

but it's also smaller, and not '3-in-1'.

Decathlon also make a 3-in-1 Ultralight 1

https://www.decathlon.co.uk/trek-900-ul ... 92462.html

only around 1.4kg, but VERY small

Any suggestions for a UK two-door free-standing tent that could save some weight on the Decathlon effort?