Sleeping mats and punctures

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willem jongman
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Re: Sleeping mats and punctures

Postby willem jongman » 23 Aug 2019, 3:39pm

Thermarest are really good about warranty so that is what I would go for. I do want to remind people about the danger of leaving any mattress in a hot tent, and not just ultralight mattresses. This is asking for trouble because air expands a lot when hot.

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Sweep
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Re: Sleeping mats and punctures

Postby Sweep » 23 Aug 2019, 5:18pm

willem jongman wrote:Thermarest are really good about warranty so that is what I would go for. I do want to remind people about the danger of leaving any mattress in a hot tent, and not just ultralight mattresses. This is asking for trouble because air expands a lot when hot.


Surely you can hardly avoid this at times?

Are you saying the problem can be avoided if you partly deflate the mat if leaving one in a tent on a hot day?
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Slowroad
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Re: Sleeping mats and punctures

Postby Slowroad » 23 Aug 2019, 7:36pm

I usually leave the sleeping mat vent open if leaving the tent for a day.
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Ivor Tingting
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Re: Sleeping mats and punctures

Postby Ivor Tingting » 24 Aug 2019, 1:21am

Sorry but you have to be a bit of an idiot to leave a fully inflated mattress in a tent all day in hot summer weather or indeed in any other hot confined space. Asking for trouble.

I have several mats but the current one of the moment is a Thermarest NeoAir All Season wide version which pretty much ticks all the boxes. Very comfortable. Not that heavy either.
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mercalia
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Re: Sleeping mats and punctures

Postby mercalia » 24 Aug 2019, 11:24am

Sweep wrote:
willem jongman wrote:Thermarest are really good about warranty so that is what I would go for. I do want to remind people about the danger of leaving any mattress in a hot tent, and not just ultralight mattresses. This is asking for trouble because air expands a lot when hot.


Surely you can hardly avoid this at times?

Are you saying the problem can be avoided if you partly deflate the mat if leaving one in a tent on a hot day?



by the way did you ever use that Lidl blow up mat that is also very light?

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andrew_s
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Re: Sleeping mats and punctures

Postby andrew_s » 28 Aug 2019, 12:10pm

Sweep wrote:Are you saying the problem can be avoided if you partly deflate the mat if leaving one in a tent on a hot day?

A self inflating mat can be left with the valve open, but the ultralight air beds do indeed need to be partially deflated, to the tune of at least a quarter of the air inside.

Apropos of the fridge door at work, I worked out that a 20° change in the air temperature is about 1 psi. If you take an 80 kg (175 lb) person lying on the mat, 1 psi will support them on an area of 10" x 17.5", and I wouldn't mind betting that the actual area of contact is double that, and hence the pressure more like 0.5 psi. I don't know, but I'd guess that the pressure limit for the average mat will be around 1 psi.
If you inflate the mat in the evening, at around 15°, and the following afternoon's sun takes the tent temperature up to 50°, which is quite possible, you can see how popping the mat is possible.

mercalia
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Re: Sleeping mats and punctures

Postby mercalia » 30 Aug 2019, 4:39pm

I am thinking that full size mats are a waste of space/weight and money? Who does a decent quality 1/2 mat that just supports up to the backside?

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Sweep
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Re: Sleeping mats and punctures

Postby Sweep » 30 Aug 2019, 4:51pm

mercalia wrote:I am thinking that full size mats are a waste of space/weight and money? Who does a decent quality 1/2 mat that just supports up to the backside?

1/2 rather than 3/4 or 80 per cent or whatever?
What about the issue of insulation?
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whoof
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Re: Sleeping mats and punctures

Postby whoof » 30 Aug 2019, 4:58pm

mercalia wrote:I am thinking that full size mats are a waste of space/weight and money? Who does a decent quality 1/2 mat that just supports up to the backside?


I bought a full length NeoAir and Mrs Whoof bought a 3/4 one. She now wishes she bought a full length one as she finds her feet get cold and uncomfortable.
Perhaps try sleeping on your current full length mat with it pulled up so you are only 1/2 on it. You might be OK.

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andrew_s
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Re: Sleeping mats and punctures

Postby andrew_s » 30 Aug 2019, 5:04pm

mercalia wrote:I am thinking that full size mats are a waste of space/weight and money? Who does a decent quality 1/2 mat that just supports up to the backside?

Klymit & Nemo do short airbeds (~125 cm, https://www.ultralightoutdoorgear.co.uk), and if you use a closed cell foam mat, a pair of scissors will shorten it to any length you want.

My experience of 3/4 mats (shoulder to knee, more or less) was that a light self-inflating mat (1" thick) was OK, and an empty pannier or a rainjacket kept my feet far enough off the ground that they didn't get that cold, but with an airbed (Neoair) I noticed the drop off the end more.
In addition, I use a quilt rather than a sleeping bag these days, so full length is more or less required.

mercalia
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Re: Sleeping mats and punctures

Postby mercalia » 30 Aug 2019, 5:06pm

Sweep wrote:
mercalia wrote:I am thinking that full size mats are a waste of space/weight and money? Who does a decent quality 1/2 mat that just supports up to the backside?

1/2 rather than 3/4 or 80 per cent or whatever?
What about the issue of insulation?



what ever, "torso" length I think is the technical term. Maybe you need a full length one for autumn/winter but for summer is overkill? Trouble is I want a torso length version of my Mondo King thick mattress, that is about 3-4" thick

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Sweep
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Re: Sleeping mats and punctures

Postby Sweep » 30 Aug 2019, 9:22pm

Was in decathlon earlier.

This

https://www.decathlon.co.uk/folding-foa ... 93400.html

A super sit mat, might be handy come nightfall for extending the insulation area for a short sleeping mat.
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pedalsheep
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Re: Sleeping mats and punctures

Postby pedalsheep » 30 Aug 2019, 10:04pm

andrew_s wrote:
mercalia wrote:I am thinking that full size mats are a waste of space/weight and money? Who does a decent quality 1/2 mat that just supports up to the backside?



My experience of 3/4 mats (shoulder to knee, more or less) was that a light self-inflating mat (1" thick) was OK, and an empty pannier or a rainjacket kept my feet far enough off the ground that they didn't get that cold, but with an airbed (Neoair) I noticed the drop off the end more.

That is my experience too. I sold my 3/4 length neoair and bought a full length one.
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philsknees
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Re: Sleeping mats and punctures

Postby philsknees » 2 Sep 2019, 10:32am

Mercalia asked " Who does a decent quality 1/2 mat that just supports up to the backside?"
A few years ago I managed to source a Bozeman Mountain Works Torsolite self-inflating mattress, as reviewed here:
http://www.trailblaze-trekking.com/ther ... olite.html)
which fits the bill and proved great for super-light summer backpacking & when modified with a velcro attached short length of closed cell foam under my feet sufficed for winter trips when weight was important. Eventually I decided that as a hyper active side sleeper it wasn't best for me and I found myself rolling off it, which was no joke on snow/frozen ground. I'm not sure whether the company is still trading in the US. I even used it upside down as I found it excessively narrow under my hip - possibly OK for back sleepers?
Re 3/4 length NeoAirs, in my advancing years I've found them very comfortable (at 5' 11") by using them from shoulder to feet, side sleeping with legs slightly bent, if I used my bar bag or a filled front pannier at the head of the mattress as a raised base for a pillow. The problem with NeoAirs for me was rolling off them as I turned over. It's definitely worth getting the wider, XL NeoAir which, when correctly inflated (ie soft-ish) feels much more roomy and stable. I do find the XL versions take up a lot of space in a touring tent and am trying to pluck up courage to operate to reduce the length to that of a 3/4 mattress. It's supposed to be straightforward!

Caledonia64
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Re: Sleeping mats and punctures

Postby Caledonia64 » 12 Sep 2019, 1:06pm

I have two Highlander "thermarest" type mats, bought oh it must have been 2001 I think. Neither has punctured.
I have a third - different model, but can't remember which brand, maybe not very great quality as bought for a child - that did puncture but due to the rumbunctiousness - or maybe deliberate experimenting - of a unmedicated preschooler with ADHD so not typical usage. It was repaired and the repair was more or less satisfactory.

The unpunctured two have gone camping with a dog. Not my current dogs, I concede, but a gentler model.

The Highlander mats on Amazon are about £30. Admittedly they are perhaps not as insulating or thick as other brands (they were standard specs at the time they were bought).

I also have some Airbeds for guests (and for daily use in one case when I had no bed for 2 months), I think either Trespass or Bestway or both, as I have two singles (for teenage boy sleepover) and one double (see daily use). The singles have survived use by a gang of teenage boys augmented by dogs, except for the loss of one replaceable bung where the wooden slatted z-Bed did not; the double blow up bed, survived dogs though did need topped up every week.

These are of course heavier options and not something I would take camping unless I had a motor car (and even then... faff-ish to inflate for a weekend).