bivvy bag

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Si
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bivvy bag

Post by Si »

was about to order an Alpkit bivvy (or is it bivy) bag, but as with everything I want to buy from them it's out of stock. Started looking at the mountain warehouse one....much cheaper and in stock. Any views on it as an occasional, summer use when there is little chance of heavy rain bag?
https://www.mountainwarehouse.com/bivy- ... spx/khaki/

Likewise I notice the Karrimor one going cheap but can't find any reviews of it. Anyone tried it?
https://www.sportsdirect.com/karrimor-b ... mAEALw_wcB
mercalia
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Re: bivvy bag

Post by mercalia »

dont like either as they are tapered too much at the feet. I dont know how big a person you are but ideally you should be able to put your mat inside awell as the sleeping bag and you. doubt you can do that with either?
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Re: bivvy bag

Post by Vorpal »

I am interested in this question as well.

I found this http://thenextchallenge.org/comparison-best-bivi-bags/

which indicates that the Army Goretex is the best budget bivvy bag.

The Mountain Warehouse one is reviewd on Amazon https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mountain-Wareh ... B01BU0PN82

It has pretty good reviews, but a number of reviewers note problems with condensation.

On this 3 year old thread on singletrack forum, one reviewer suggests that Karrimor is the better bag for the money https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topi ... i-options/
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pjclinch
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Re: bivvy bag

Post by pjclinch »

Not a direct answer, but a general truism about Karrimor (the current company) and Mountain Warehouse stuff is it's sold on the DFS sofa model: while notionally you probably can pay "full price" if you try really hard, what you're typically getting when you buy a notionally £2X item for £X is a reasonable £X item.

For occasional use I'd imagine they would be fine. I wouldn't want to use any bivvi if I really thought there was a significant chance of Proper Rain™.

Mine is an ancient ex-army Goretex one I've had for over 25 years. I'm not a big user but it's never let me down when I have used it. What was very handy on once occasion was the ability to zip fully in. Spending the night out before an assault on the Cuillin ridge, I was woken by my compatriots without that feature being breakfasted upon by the local midges...

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Re: bivvy bag

Post by crazydave789 »

mercalia wrote:dont like either as they are tapered too much at the feet. I dont know how big a person you are but ideally you should be able to put your mat inside awell as the sleeping bag and you. doubt you can do that with either?


mats inside can increase the damage to the bag and also restrict movement, military bags it can work and some bags are designed to hold a mat so you can roll it like a swag.

I've got a load of army bags and a couple of civvy ones which which are far lighter and thinner but also smaller. army bags being simple and longer means you can flip them over and use the bottom as a rain lid or clip it out like a cobra style bivvy. I once spent a very boring night rolled over that way from 7pm to 7am.

bags work better when dry so adding a basha or poncho to the kit helps it no end as even a dew wet out can give you a sweaty night. you can either string it as a tarp or make a ground envelope to protect your kit and act as a pillow. if it rains you pull the top flap over your head.

when dry they can add a season to your sleeping bag rating, when they wet out they can take a season away.
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Sweep
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Re: bivvy bag

Post by Sweep »

mercalia wrote: but ideally you should be able to put your mat inside awell as the sleeping bag


+ 1 to this - makes things far easier - no worries about rolling off the mat at night - just use a B&Q tarp underneath the bag.

No probs doing that with my old army gore bag - it's not small or very light though.

On the OP, no up-close knowledge of those two bags but I'd be surprised if the Karrimor is any good. Would be a freak if it was - a once great company now just a label for Sports Direct.

edit - just noticed that the army bivi is mentioned upthread - I think I paid £40 or £50 for mine 15 years or so ago but me being me was probably done.

Although as that review says they are not the lightest or most compact they are damn tough - you should never have to buy another - I did think more recently of replacing it with something more "hi - tech" but then decided against it, to just perfect my packing, get a good tough bag to squash it in. Tough is good - it gets chucked down in woods and fields.

I think maybe on balance I'd shop around for one of those unless you are after really compact - price depends on condition of course though many on sale are of course second hand of some sort - I suppose that attests to their toughness though.
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mercalia
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Re: bivvy bag

Post by mercalia »

wasnt really suggesting you should put your mat in the bag but I like the option, and those 2 bags look like sleeping bags without stuffing. A bivvy should be roomy inside and not a tight fit as they may be? you may want to have a sleeping bag inside and wear some other clothing also?
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Re: bivvy bag

Post by Sweep »

crazydave789 wrote:
mats inside can increase the damage to the bag


Sorry only just spotted this.

How does that happen Dave?

Honest question.

As above, I do prefer the mat inside - I did use it outside to start with but I had a habit of moving off the thing during the night. I also figured that the Thermarest was also more likely to get mucky, wet or worse if ouside. I stress that I don't transport the mat inside the bivi.
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Re: bivvy bag

Post by pjclinch »

Sweep wrote:
crazydave789 wrote:
mats inside can increase the damage to the bag


Sorry only just spotted this.

How does that happen Dave?

Honest question.

As above, I do prefer the mat inside - I did use it outside to start with but I had a habit of moving off the thing during the night. I also figured that the Thermarest was also more likely to get mucky, wet or worse if ouside. I stress that I don't transport the mat inside the bivi.


If the bag is on the mat it'll protect the bag from any roughness on the ground. If the mat's inside the bag is against the ground. Mats tend to be both relatively tougher and static while bags move if the sleeper is mobile, but which one is against the ground will be more prone to damage, so you choose, you lose...

I'd think it's on the list of "things to be aware of" rather than "don't do this because"

Pete.
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Si
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Re: bivvy bag

Post by Si »

my old one was roomy but I couldn't be doing with a mat inside because it always ended up on top of me....I must thrash in my sleep!

In fact my old one was not 100% water proof* either but sufficed for summer use when one could decide on the evening whether to go or not.

Oh if only alpkit had their nice ones in stock...



*which it's previous owner found out part way up Mt McKinely :-(
Barks
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Re: bivvy bag

Post by Barks »

As mentioned above, goretex type bivvy bags are only ‘breathable’ when they are dry, once rain or heavy dew is on them condensation will quickly build up inside and you will get very clammy and cold - Goretex type material is not the wonder material that many people think it is. The army system uses a shelter sheet to keep the worst of the moisture off and the bag itself keeps the wind off and warmth in. As for the mat, if you have a Thermarest neoair inflatable type then keep it inside the bag (it is more expensive than the bivvy bag in any case and can easily puncture) and use a ground sheet (a piece of builders Tyvek works very well) to minimise risk of sharp stones, briars or thorns damaging the bag itself. If you use a closed cell foam mat then that can work well underneath but there still remains a tendency to roll off it. Army bivvy bag plus shelter sheet plus tyvek groundsheet still come in at around nearly 1kg and will cost under £100 if you shop around. Ultra lightweight tents can come in at around 1.2kg with poke system and will cost at least over double that but you do get an encllosed space away from bugs and better protection in very bad weather. You can also get very lightweight mesh inner tents that will go under a shelter sheet that are much more comfortable than bivvy bags and more versatile. DD Hammocks are a good site to look at to get the idea with lots of informative instructional video clips of the different options.
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Re: bivvy bag

Post by crazydave789 »

Sweep wrote:
crazydave789 wrote:
mats inside can increase the damage to the bag


Sorry only just spotted this.

How does that happen Dave?

Honest question.

As above, I do prefer the mat inside - I did use it outside to start with but I had a habit of moving off the thing during the night. I also figured that the Thermarest was also more likely to get mucky, wet or worse if ouside. I stress that I don't transport the mat inside the bivi.


maybe needed to be a tad clearer.

the mat itself will rarely cause the damage but newer bivvy bags have a very thin inner layer and sharp corners on some mats cause rub spots, having the bag directly on the ground opens you up to scuffs, holes etc.. as you wriggle about it also clogs the membrane layers so it cuts down on it's breathability.

I know what you mean about moving off the mat during the night I move a lot as well so tend to bend and flex until I've been at it for a week or two. I used to like to find a depression to keep me in place. the mat inside is like being strapped to a plank IMO. when sleeping in the bushes I have a terrible habit of finding the brambles which is why I tend to leave my thermarest inside the chair kit for a bit of extra protection.

the mil bags I know I can throw about and they will still mostly work. every now and again I'll wet them out and seal the leaks.
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Re: bivvy bag

Post by crazydave789 »

with the army bags the holes are usually due to brambles because when you set up in the night with light discipline you cannot check what you are laying on. the holes in mine tend to be in the lower two feet and on the top from me kicking away in the night.

if you wet out the inside of the beg then it will track out and stop the outside of the bag, mark it with some chalk/marker pen and fix it with a dab of sealant mix/seamgrip/shoogoo inside or out.

the army way of using goretex when we first got it and they were paranoid about it being so expensive was on when wet off when dry to allow you to dry out from where your sweat had wet out your clothes, there was the myth that you could stay warm in the just the bivvy bags or stand in a river up to your chest and be cosy - sooo wrong. but better than being out in the rain.

as mentioned the best way is to keep a shelter sheet over the top and keep the whole lot dry when sleeping out.

I tend to pack a bivvy bag because sometimes you want to crash out for a couple of hours by the side of the road and in the UK rain happens. being a bad sleeper I would often start my rides at three am and ride till lunchtime before having a nap.
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Re: bivvy bag

Post by mercalia »

pjclinch wrote:
Sweep wrote:
crazydave789 wrote:
mats inside can increase the damage to the bag


Sorry only just spotted this.

How does that happen Dave?

Honest question.

As above, I do prefer the mat inside - I did use it outside to start with but I had a habit of moving off the thing during the night. I also figured that the Thermarest was also more likely to get mucky, wet or worse if ouside. I stress that I don't transport the mat inside the bivi.


If the bag is on the mat it'll protect the bag from any roughness on the ground. If the mat's inside the bag is against the ground. Mats tend to be both relatively tougher and static while bags move if the sleeper is mobile, but which one is against the ground will be more prone to damage, so you choose, you lose...

I'd think it's on the list of "things to be aware of" rather than "don't do this because"

Pete.


well mats on the ground can thus get pricked and leak. rather than happen to the bag. unfortunatley my Thermarest mondo king is too big to go in my bag, as other wise it would be put there at it aint cheap at £120+ these days
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Re: bivvy bag

Post by Sweep »

pjclinch wrote:
Sweep wrote:
crazydave789 wrote:
mats inside can increase the damage to the bag


Sorry only just spotted this.

How does that happen Dave?

Honest question.

As above, I do prefer the mat inside - I did use it outside to start with but I had a habit of moving off the thing during the night. I also figured that the Thermarest was also more likely to get mucky, wet or worse if ouside. I stress that I don't transport the mat inside the bivi.


If the bag is on the mat it'll protect the bag from any roughness on the ground. If the mat's inside the bag is against the ground. Mats tend to be both relatively tougher and static while bags move if the sleeper is mobile, but which one is against the ground will be more prone to damage, so you choose, you lose...

I'd think it's on the list of "things to be aware of" rather than "don't do this because"

Pete.

Thanks pj.

But I put the B&Q blue tarp under the bivi, the same tarp that goes under my tent. So am probably fine. Tend to think my mat is more delicate than the British Army's bivi.
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