Trangia flame: what should it look like?

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pjclinch
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Re: Trangia flame: what should it look like?

Post by pjclinch »

horizon wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:BTW if you think the meths burner is fast then you'll love the gas burner for Trangia. No contest in the speed stakes.


:) I always had a little Camping Gaz Bluet stove so knew that gas was quick. But I thought that meths would be very slow, you know, go off for a walk and come back half an hour later sort of thing. But it isn't. When gas is slow though is when the cyclinder is running out - with meths you don't have that problem.


While people do go on a bit about meths being slow I've only been at the yawning stage using it for snow melting where it really is very much not the best. On the other hand, not a common issue for most campers.

While a Trangia is relatively slow compared to gas stoves you can get around a lot of that with the stove's ability to be left entirely to its own devices while you get on with something else. Set it going first thing on arrival and it'll be boiling happily the second you finish pitching the tent.

With a remote-can setup with a fuel pre-heat loop like a Trangia Gas you can eke the end out of a cylinder far more effectively than a can-top one, with a bit of judicious shaking and inverting the can. The pre-heat loop ensures that the irregular fuel supply/state all comes out as gas rather than rather dangerous liquid. Can-top stoves are also harder to effectively shield from the wind.

Boiling times seem to be a common metric for comparing stoves, but it's used more because it's an easy number to work out rather than it relates to much about the actual usefulness of a stove. Fuel weight per boiled litre or the like would be a bit more useful, but in practice most people take a bit more fuel than they know they'll need and don't sweat the few extra grammes.

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horizon
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Re: Trangia flame: what should it look like?

Post by horizon »

pjclinch wrote:
Boiling times seem to be a common metric for comparing stoves, but it's used more because it's an easy number to work out rather than it relates to much about the actual usefulness of a stove.

Pete.


+ 1. It actually seems pretty daft. It all boils down (excuse the pun) to how you manage your heat source and what appeals to you - hence wood burning stoves versus super modern gas. I wouldn't recommend meths to anyone camping for the first time because I don't know how they would get on with it. But I would recommend trying it out. No-one ever got sacked for recommending an IBM gas stove but meths has its virtues. In an odd kind of way, I quite like seeing the fuel - gas seems a bit remote.

So far my only reservation about meths has been the possibility of a higher flame which makes me concerned about using it inside a tent - gas seems to be more controllable and predictable.
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher
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Re: Trangia flame: what should it look like?

Post by Tangled Metal »

That's why i posted my earlier comment about surprise people still get defensive about their preference when it's all just personal choice / preferences. I really don't know why but the reasons you prefer x fuel type over y don't always have to be important to me or anyone else.

Then you get into comparisons to argue one is better. Boil time or ability to light and leave. Incidentally Trangia with gas burner is also easily lit and left. As is a remote can gas stove with windshield, which is possibly the competitor to a Trangia with gas burner. Similar leave to boil and fiddle with the can to get most out (assuming the same preheater).

If there's two things we should agree on, there's no best system for all. No best fuel for all. It's perhaps time for these discussions to die a death on forums. They don't really get anywhere.
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Re: Trangia flame: what should it look like?

Post by horizon »

Tangled Metal wrote:That's why i posted my earlier comment

Yes, I did mentally refer to it and yes, you're right.


It's perhaps time for these discussions to die a death on forums. They don't really get anywhere.


They don't, because there is no definitive answer - it all comes down (as you said) to personal preference. But I do like to read about those preferences - I want someone to put the case and actually explain why he/she finds gas or meths better or Trangia good or bad. It then informs my choice. So for me it's helpful.
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher
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Re: Trangia flame: what should it look like?

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Tangled Metal wrote:Go gas do a conversion for Trangia that's half the price of the Trangia one but almost identical. I really don't know why Trangia sell their conversion at such a high markup.

It's not quite identical - it's superior to the Trangia gas burner on account of the pre-heat loop being sited closer to the flame. I've heard reports of the official Trangia gas burner not pre-heating very well. It was these reports that made me go for the Go Gas burner (as well as the price).
Disclaimer: Treat what I say with caution and if possible, wait for someone with more knowledge and experience to contribute. ;)
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Re: Trangia flame: what should it look like?

Post by pjclinch »

horizon wrote:I wouldn't recommend meths to anyone camping for the first time because I don't know how they would get on with it.


Trangias are popular with D of E groups, where they will often be the first portable stove a person uses. Certainly a lot more friendly in all sorts of respects than the parafin Primus stoves we used to use on Scout camps many moons past.

horizon wrote:So far my only reservation about meths has been the possibility of a higher flame which makes me concerned about using it inside a tent - gas seems to be more controllable and predictable.


You can always use the simmer ring on a Trangia, but even when it's as roaring as it gets I've never seen a Trangia flame worrying the space above the windshield much. Gas is, absolutely, more controllable but how much control do you need?
My main reservation about meths is the potential for human error in pouring the stuff, particularly refuelling a dried-out still-hot burner.

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Re: Trangia flame: what should it look like?

Post by Tangled Metal »

freiston wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:Go gas do a conversion for Trangia that's half the price of the Trangia one but almost identical. I really don't know why Trangia sell their conversion at such a high markup.

It's not quite identical - it's superior to the Trangia gas burner on account of the pre-heat loop being sited closer to the flame. I've heard reports of the official Trangia gas burner not pre-heating very well. It was these reports that made me go for the Go Gas burner (as well as the price).

Well that doesn't surprise me. The mini Trangia clones I've seen seem to be better made than the original.
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Re: Trangia flame: what should it look like?

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Tangled Metal wrote:the reasons you prefer x fuel type over y don't always have to be important to me or anyone else.


But that's not the same as they will be unimportant to anyone else.

Someone walks in to a bike shop, says "I want a bike, don't know much about them, what do you recommend?"
What would you think of advice on the lines of, "well, it's all about personal choice so there's no point in giving you any information"?

Same applies to camping stoves. More information is generally better. I'd agree it's a bit daft saying "X is best in all situations, end of", or getting offended if someone else doesn't sympathise with their particular choices, but experience is useful to pass on to help people learn about what's available and get them past preconceptions (e.g. lord knows how many pressure stoves have been mis-sold over the years to people who assumed that because Everest expeditions tend to use them, they must be the "best").

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Re: Trangia flame: what should it look like?

Post by meic »

The thing that is important to me is that I buy meths or paraffin for about £6 per gallon in plastic containers. The gas costs that much for 500g of fuel and leaves a trail of pressurised cans behind you.

As well as DofE, the Scouts around here seem to be being raised on Trangias.
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Re: Trangia flame: what should it look like?

Post by horizon »

pjclinch wrote:
horizon wrote:I wouldn't recommend meths to anyone camping for the first time because I don't know how they would get on with it.


Trangias are popular with D of E groups, where they will often be the first portable stove a person uses. Certainly a lot more friendly in all sorts of respects than the parafin Primus stoves we used to use on Scout camps many moons past.

Pete.


What I meant was, I wouldn't like to be the person who persuaded them to use it but if they're up for it, then great. It's just hard to recommend over gas, if you see what I mean. But if you've been introduced to it anyway and had no choice, then chances are you get to like it.

IIRC, the DoE have deprecated meths and are now specifying gas - I don't know how true that is or why.
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Re: Trangia flame: what should it look like?

Post by pjclinch »

horizon wrote:
pjclinch wrote:
horizon wrote:I wouldn't recommend meths to anyone camping for the first time because I don't know how they would get on with it.


Trangias are popular with D of E groups, where they will often be the first portable stove a person uses. Certainly a lot more friendly in all sorts of respects than the parafin Primus stoves we used to use on Scout camps many moons past.


What I meant was, I wouldn't like to be the person who persuaded them to use it but if they're up for it, then great. It's just hard to recommend over gas, if you see what I mean. But if you've been introduced to it anyway and had no choice, then chances are you get to like it.

IIRC, the DoE have deprecated meths and are now specifying gas - I don't know how true that is or why.


My daughter did a DofE Bronze this year and they had gas, but that's just a data point.

The thing about recommending meths over gas (or vice versa) is that the devil is much in the detail and you need to look at the total system. I imagine a lot of the popularity of Trangias for D of E is that the stove is as stable and weather-proofed as anything out there. Of course, that's true whether you use gas or meths, but you do add to the price for gas and for a stove which will only be used a few nights a year (I'd guess that's the case for D of E type stock) that's possibly significant.

My daughter's school group used can-top gas, which wouldn't have been my choice for the job. But they all ate passably well and nobody was referred to the local burns unit. I think some of them found out the hard way that can-top gas isn't especially stable, but as the exercise is a learning experience maybe that's a plus point...

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Re: Trangia flame: what should it look like?

Post by pjclinch »

meic wrote:The thing that is important to me is that I buy meths or paraffin for about £6 per gallon in plastic containers. The gas costs that much for 500g of fuel and leaves a trail of pressurised cans behind you.


I was certainly keener on spirit when I had a free supply of the stuff!
Gas cans are typically recycled as a specific item by local councils. That's the case in Dundee, at any rate.

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Re: Trangia flame: what should it look like?

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meic wrote:The thing that is important to me is that I buy meths or paraffin for about £6 per gallon in plastic containes.

Source please for meths at this price.
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Re: Trangia flame: what should it look like?

Post by meic »

France last year.
I stock up while I am over there.
This year I only saw it at 9 Euros/5L and 1.80 Euro/L.
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Re: Trangia flame: what should it look like?

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meic wrote:France last year.
I stock up while I am over there.
This year I only saw it at 9 Euros/5L and 1.80 Euro/L.


Inflation's only 2.7%!
Ask the Govt. :lol:

Alcool a brûle I find better than meths. Seems a bit thicker somehow longer lasting. But perhaps I'm wrong.
I only use it for preheating paraffin burner anyway. And cleaning rims and rotors!

Years ago I replaced a totally battered re-soldered Optimus with a new multi fuel burner.
Use gas for a quick brew up and paraffin for that 3 course meal (!) and winter camping.
It's been very good. Stable and reliable.
The thing also burns petrol and at a pinch diesel.
But I don't really like either as a camping fuel.
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