Eco-friendly tent

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PH
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Re: Eco-friendly tent

Post by PH »

hamster wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:Paramo made in Peru, air miles?

Golite and Big Agnes are American so air miles an issue too? Although I'd not be surprised if they don't get stuff made in SE Asia somewhere.

I sorry but the outdoor industry is as capable of greenwashing their products as any other. Whilst bluesign certification and other schemes help there's unlikely to be a real environmentally friendly solution. Even Cotton tents will use not very green chemicals to produce.

I'm not trying to criticize your aims but let's be honest here, it's really just lipservice to being green surely?


Tents won't be air freighted. Surface transport by sea container.

You might be surprised how much comes in by air, if you're importing by the tonne it's clear cut, if it's by the kg less so, typically 3 - 4 times the price, insignificant on a 2kg item retailing at £300+. East Midlands Airport, just up the road from me, handles 320,000 tonnes a year!
hamster
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Re: Eco-friendly tent

Post by hamster »

Agreed it's surprising, but things that get airfreighted are generally either high value or time-critical. Much of that air cargo is food and flowers. it's arguable whether it's necessary, but that's a different discussion. As you say, surprisingly cheap - the £3 petrol-station roses from Africa being a good example.

Tents and outdoor kit are usually bought in a big drop-ship early in the year by container for the beginning of the spring selling season.
Tangled Metal
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Re: Eco-friendly tent

Post by Tangled Metal »

hamster wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:Paramo made in Peru, air miles?

Golite and Big Agnes are American so air miles an issue too? Although I'd not be surprised if they don't get stuff made in SE Asia somewhere.

I sorry but the outdoor industry is as capable of greenwashing their products as any other. Whilst bluesign certification and other schemes help there's unlikely to be a real environmentally friendly solution. Even Cotton tents will use not very green chemicals to produce.

I'm not trying to criticize your aims but let's be honest here, it's really just lipservice to being green surely?


Tents won't be air freighted. Surface transport by sea container.

You're probably right but it was really a comment on cost to the environment to deliver. Sea freight is obviously better but is it not better still to buy from Derbyshire when Tetra Nova still make selected, tents for example.

Personally all this green claims I question. There are some very good brands that manage lightweight tents v with a reputation for lasting. Obvious one is hilleberg. There is nothing greener than not needing a new tent so keeping one for longer is better than buying the greenest one too make it the environmental cost vs lifetime balance doesn't pay out.

If you want lightweight and low impact have you thought of making or buying a tarp? Just an idea. If you're using less petrochemical products (less fabric) and can make it last (it's a simple sheet of fabric with pegging points) then a greener option than a tent perhaps? What sacrifice for environmental beliefs?

BTW if anyone knows for sure they've got the green answer to camping out I'll call you Ray Meare and watch you make a shelter out of what's around you and a homemade knife.
hamster
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Re: Eco-friendly tent

Post by hamster »

The Ray Meares way is fine, provided the land is lightly-travelled!

As you say, it is hard to make a balanced judgment. Buying a durable tent that will last 25 years is surely the best way - what resources get used are used minimally.
Tangled Metal
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Re: Eco-friendly tent

Post by Tangled Metal »

I agree there. Which is why is not look at the lightest tents. Hilleberg are light enough but last. A lighter day msr or big Agnes tent might not last as long. Any green credentials would be lost to the double lifespan of hilleberg.
Bmblbzzz
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Re: Eco-friendly tent

Post by Bmblbzzz »

People recommending cotton should bear in mind it uses vast amounts of water as well as occupying agricultural land which could be producing food; and it's usually still treated with synthetic coatings while being spun. And of course there are pesticides and (petrochemical derived) fertilisers used. It's not necessarily any better than nylon.
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Re: Eco-friendly tent

Post by Bmblbzzz »

David F wrote:Ossie,
Many outdoors people think they're oh-so-green but much of their kit is petrochemical based, and it goes to landfill at the end of its useful life. Some manufacturers try to do better: Paramo, Golite and Big Agnes, for example. If consumers don't ask for better then they'll never get better. Whilst I won't get all I'm hoping for, I'd rather try to spend my money with companies which are making some effort rather than with those which are not making any.
David F

I'm interested to know in what way Big Agnes "try to do better" when it comes to being eco-friendly. My reason for asking is simply that I know a couple of people with Big Agnes tents, they're both very pleased with them but neither has mentioned any greater eco-friendliness as a motive for buying.
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mjr
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Re: Eco-friendly tent

Post by mjr »

Bmblbzzz wrote:People recommending cotton should bear in mind it uses vast amounts of water as well as occupying agricultural land which could be producing food; and it's usually still treated with synthetic coatings while being spun. And of course there are pesticides and (petrochemical derived) fertilisers used. It's not necessarily any better than nylon.

Does cotton degrade and be disposed of more easily than nylon and polyester? No plastic microfibres when washed and so on?
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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Bmblbzzz
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Re: Eco-friendly tent

Post by Bmblbzzz »

mjr wrote:
Bmblbzzz wrote:People recommending cotton should bear in mind it uses vast amounts of water as well as occupying agricultural land which could be producing food; and it's usually still treated with synthetic coatings while being spun. And of course there are pesticides and (petrochemical derived) fertilisers used. It's not necessarily any better than nylon.

Does cotton degrade and be disposed of more easily than nylon and polyester? No plastic microfibres when washed and so on?

Decomposing is a good point and obviously one where cotton (or other plant fibres) are more planet-friendly than synthetics. As for plastic microfibres, yes there will be if, as is likely, the cotton is coated in petrochemicals. But who washes a tent anyway?

We also have to bear in mind the other-use potential of these materials. I've mentioned the food-growing capacity of land used for growing cotton, but the food-bearing potential of petrochemicals is another (fertilisers, pesticides, fuel used in growing crops). It's right to be concerned about these things but it's not a straightforward case of one material good, another bad. In fact, it's also slightly hypocritical, as whatever material you end up with, you're using those resources for frivolous leisure purposes -- and the differences become angels on pinheads set against the likely car use to take campers and tents to their destinations.

But bearing the essential futility in mind, it's still good to be less bad!
mattsccm
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Re: Eco-friendly tent

Post by mattsccm »

This sort of question pops up in all sorts of places. I don't know the definitive answer, and I bet no one does, but to me the most ecologically sound thing to do is not to replace stuff all the time. I dare bet that my 35 year old Helly Hansen fibre pile has more than outweighed its production "cost" to the world.
crazydave789
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Re: Eco-friendly tent

Post by crazydave789 »

I'd have said a second hand tent is the most ecological option. then getting the most value out of it.

or buy new and keep it for 20 years then sell it on.
leftpoole
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Re: Eco-friendly tent

Post by leftpoole »

David F wrote:Ossie,
Many outdoors people think they're oh-so-green but much of their kit is petrochemical based, and it goes to landfill at the end of its useful life. Some manufacturers try to do better: Paramo, Golite and Big Agnes, for example. If consumers don't ask for better then they'll never get better. Whilst I won't get all I'm hoping for, I'd rather try to spend my money with companies which are making some effort rather than with those which are not making any.
David F



Hello,
You might possibly end up in landfill at the end of your life.!
Don't worry about it. Buy a nice tent and enjoy your life.
Your bike is made from sustainable components I assume?
Regards from an outdoors person who loves cycles and drives a BMW 3 litre Diesel!
I use Hilleberg tents by the way........
John
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Gattonero
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Re: Eco-friendly tent

Post by Gattonero »

leftpoole wrote:
David F wrote:Ossie,
Many outdoors people think they're oh-so-green but much of their kit is petrochemical based, and it goes to landfill at the end of its useful life. Some manufacturers try to do better: Paramo, Golite and Big Agnes, for example. If consumers don't ask for better then they'll never get better. Whilst I won't get all I'm hoping for, I'd rather try to spend my money with companies which are making some effort rather than with those which are not making any.
David F



Hello,
You might possibly end up in landfill at the end of your life.!
Don't worry about it. Buy a nice tent and enjoy your life.
Your bike is made from sustainable components I assume?
Regards from an outdoors person who loves cycles and drives a BMW 3 litre Diesel!
I use Hilleberg tents by the way........
John


Very good points ^

Also, you can always get someone to turn your old tent into drybags/utility bags and the likes :wink:
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since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...
Vorpal
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Re: Eco-friendly tent

Post by Vorpal »

Bmblbzzz wrote:I'm interested to know in what way Big Agnes "try to do better" when it comes to being eco-friendly. My reason for asking is simply that I know a couple of people with Big Agnes tents, they're both very pleased with them but neither has mentioned any greater eco-friendliness as a motive for buying.

You can read what they say about it http://blog.bigagnes.com/styles/#category-filter

They offer products that are 100% recycled materials, use renewable power (100% wind), analyse transport and other stuff.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
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Bmblbzzz
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Re: Eco-friendly tent

Post by Bmblbzzz »

Thanks for the link, Vorpal; unfortunately it's taking a year to open for me, but I'll try it another day.
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