Advice required on choice of 2/3 person lightweight tent

[Thehairs1970]

We have totally been bitten by the touring bug and need to upgrade our equipment now. We are used to camping and have always had tents but every time I think I've found a tent, I find poor reviews. So can you help? We camp as a family and although our oldest is probably off to uni in a year or so, we'd like to keep them in mind. We want to go lightweight and are after a three berth or roomy two berth tent with a large porch. We could then get a light tarp to go over the porch and bridge the gap to the kids' tent. These are the ones I have liked so far, Wild Country Hoolie 3 ETC (build quality?); Terra Nova Blizzard 3; MSR Hubba tour 3 (condensation issues?) Mapac Citadel (not available anymore?) and the Hilleberg Nallo 2GT (lottery win required). Any views or suggestions?

[bikepacker]

Obviously the Nallo 2GT is the best quality of the ones you mention. However a friend of mine has one of these and loves it. https://www.worldofcamping.co.uk/vango- ... o_s=gplauk

At the price I think it is a bargain.

[RobinS]

We were looking for the same sort of tent after our Berghaus one failed on a three month tour last year with repeated pole breakages. We bought the Vango Force 10 Xenon UL2+ referenced above. This summer we used it for six weeks straight, and it performed faultlessly - spacious enough for two comfortably, large porch, door each side, packs small, pole sections are short so easy to stow. I have previously been sceptical of the gothic arch design, but on this tent it works well, and does seem to reduce the stress in bending the poles. It is easy to pitch (though you do need different pegs for hard ground in southern Europe). The footprint is worth getting as well, and it covers the porch area as well as protecting the lightweight inner tent floor. The only slight downside we experienced is that for southern climes it could really do with more ventilation for the inner.
We are confident enough of it that we will be using it again next summer for a proposed 3 to 4 month tour.

[pjclinch]

We have totally been bitten by the touring bug and need to upgrade our equipment now. We are used to camping and have always had tents but every time I think I've found a tent, I find poor reviews. So can you help? We camp as a family and although our oldest is probably off to uni in a year or so, we'd like to keep them in mind. We want to go lightweight and are after a three berth or roomy two berth tent with a large porch. We could then get a light tarp to go over the porch and bridge the gap to the kids' tent. These are the ones I have liked so far, Wild Country Hoolie 3 ETC (build quality?); Terra Nova Blizzard 3; MSR Hubba tour 3 (condensation issues?) Mapac Citadel (not available anymore?) and the Hilleberg Nallo 2GT (lottery win required). Any views or suggestions?

If at all possible find pitched examples and crawl around inside them. That tells you more about whether you could live in there than pictures and diagrams.

For others, Wild Country build quality... not at Rolls-Royce levels, but you should be okay if you take a bit of care (and if you don't take a bit of care you can have anything fail).
Hubba condensation... There's nothing particular about the Hubba designs that make them prone to condensation more than other lightweight tents. I would suggest that internet reviews are possibly a problem here: you can get awful condensation in anything with a coated plastic flysheet (if you've got dew forming on every blade of grass where the temperature drops with 100% humidity there's no way to avoid it), but that doesn't make whatever you were in when you suffered particularly prone to it. We have a Hubba HP and Hubba Hubba HP and no obvious condensation traps with either.
Nallo GT... personally I prefer the Kaitum: 2 big porches rather than one huge one so you've got a door/porch each. There is a GT version which I'd want for the 4 person version but I suspect with 2 may actually be too much of a good thing space-wise to warrant the extra weight. Yes, they cost a lot, but spread that over the 20+ years it should last and it's not so bad. But do be sure the layout is right for you before you splash the cash. Also, remember resale values are good (at least judging from what I've seen on eBay).

For large porches for party/covered cooking/bike repair space it's worth remembering that fly-first or all-in-one pitch you can detach the inner (or part of it) and roll it aside so you have as much sheltered space as you need before bedtime.

(We use a Kaitum 3 for this job, excellent tent, now had it about 12 years and no regrets at all)

Pete.

[bikerta]

I have been using the Vango Spirit 200+ which is the older version of the Xenon and I have also been very pleased with the performance. It is about 9 years old now and I have just returned from a week in the Yorkshire Dales with no problems. Porch is huge. It does tend to sag a little when it gets damp, but easy enough to tighten it up a bit as long as you remember to loosen it off again when it dries. I like the Xenon having a door on either side. I needed that option in the Dales, as I had pitched the tent to make the most of the views, but when the wind and showers picked up, I could not keep the door open. I would have been able to if I had the option of opening a door on the opposite side of the tent.

I would dearly love the Hilleberg version and I am sure once you have one it will last for years and years, but I just cannot stretch to that sort of money.

[Thehairs1970]

Like the look but only 3000mm hydrostatic head on the fly sheet. Any rain issues?

[RobinS]

We had some torrential storms, and some very strong winds on our trip, and no issues at all in the Xenon.

[willem jongman]

We have a Hilleberg Nammatj 3 gt and it is very good, but heavy and expensive. A similar quality tent can be had from Helsport, for rather less: the new Fjellheimen Pro Camp 3. It is also a bit lighter. I just bought a Helport Lofoten 3 for my son, which unlike the Fjellheimen 3 is not really a three person tent, but he wanted the extra front entrance of this model. He took it to Schotland this summer, and that is precisely the kind of place where you want such quality tents.
But if it is just for camping in France in the summer, a Decathlon Quickhiker Ultralight will fit the bill as well, for about a third of the price. It even has DAC featherlight poles, just like Hilleberg and Helsport. The series also includes two small tents, one very light but very small, and one a bit more spacious as a solo tent, but also a bit heavier.
So it depends on where you want to go, and what budget your have. And there are quite a few other tents in this more basic price range, from the likes of Wild Country, Vaude etc. What you should think hard about is the basic design: do you want a a Scandinavian style design where inner and outer are connected, but where the inner is suspended from the outer, or do you prefer a US style tent where you pitch the inner (often with a lot of mesh) first, and than throw the outer over it. In wet weather I think the outer first design is to be prefered, but in dry hot summer weather a US style tent may be attractive.

[pjclinch]

Like the look but only 3000mm hydrostatic head on the fly sheet. Any rain issues?

Where are you camping, at the bottom of a 10 foot lake?

While on the one hand more is better for things like hydrostatic head it's worth noting what it actually is: the vertical column of water that would create enough pressure to push through, or in this case 10 feet.
To be notionally waterproof for sales purposes you need (I think) 1 meter, so 3m is properly waterproof, and then some. So if you only need 1m, why bother with 3? Because over time coatings will degrade, but it takes a lot of degrading, especially on a component that doesn't really rub against anything much.

Groudhseets may well benefit from very high values, as they have campers' weight on them to provide more pressure and they're far more subject to coating abrasion. Also the case that replacing them is a major (usually professional) sewing and sealing job. But for a fly 3m HH isn't anything I'd worry about.

Pete.

[Thehairs1970]

Not planning a lake stop but you never know.

I just noticed that some tents have 5000mmHH flys and more is more. Just wanted to check that there were no rain issues.

Martyn

[andrew_s]

These are the ones I have liked so far, Wild Country Hoolie 3 ETC (build quality?); Terra Nova Blizzard 3; MSR Hubba tour 3 (condensation issues?) Mapac Citadel (not available anymore?) and the Hilleberg Nallo 2GT (lottery win required). Any views or suggestions?

Things to think about...


The Wild Country, Terra Nova, Hilleberg, and the Vango, are all similar longitudinal tents, where you lie with your head at one end, by the door, and your feet at the other.
The MSR and Macpac (Needlesports seem to have one, at £720) are transverse tents, where you lie across the width of the tent with the door to your left or right.

With a longitudinal tent, you would normally do things like cooking (assuming the weather isn't suitable to cook away from the tent) kneeling or sitting cross-legged at the door, and working in front of you, and either person can get out without disturbing the other.

With a transverse tent, you can also cook lying down and propped up on one elbow, and there's more room for two people cross-legged without elbows clashing. The downside is that one person is the door person, and gets the responsibility for morning tea, and a second door is necessary if the other person is to escape from the tent without disturbing the other (eg 3 a.m. toilet visit). Both the MSR and Macpac do have the second door, but it is secondary, for entry/exit only, and maybe some pannier storage.

As well as inner first or outer first pitching, you've also the US or Euro approach to ventilation.
US tents generally have an outer that has a gap of 3 to 5 inches below the bottom edge, and an inner that has a large amount of mesh.
Euro tents generally have an outer that goes down to the ground, and a largely solid inner.
US tents will be colder, suffer from significant condensation less often (largely because they are colder), but when there is condensation, drips may fall straight through the mesh onto your sleeping bag.
Euro tents are warmer (at least when closed up), and suffer from condensation more often. The solid inner is sufficient to keep off of drips, but you'll often be packing the tent away damp (unless you take the time to crawl round inside wiping off the condensation with a J-cloth or similar).

[KTHSullivan]

Vango force 10 tents although not having the “pose” factor of other manufacturers are extremely good value for money and more robust than some of the bigger (more expensive) names.
My advice is not to be swayed by the hyperbole of the extremely light gravity defying manufacturers, avoid anything esoteric (Carbon, Kevlar, Cuben Fibre) as these units will last a couple of seasons at best. The majority of US manufactured tents are really not suitable for UK use, they mostly utilise inner pitch first designs; that are no doubt wonderful in Utah/Arizona, but not so good in a West coast of Scotland “mist” after 8 hours in the saddle.

My Experience:

North Face “Fortress” got two summers out of it before groundsheet leaked.
Wild Country “Llanos” ripped and bent poles during hoolie on the west Wales coast.
Big Agnes “Green Emerald” Fly sheet went all sticky and groundsheet tape delaminated (21 days use in total)
Saunders “Space Packer” finally died of UV pox after about 20 years.
Vaude “Power Lizard” Transverse guy line pulled out of seam during a blow in the Cairngorms.
Robens “Summer wind” Like living in a fridge.

There have been others in the 45 years I have been cycle camping but I have chosen to omit them

(a) because I have reached an age where my memory is not quite what it was.
(b) to avoid the soporific effect I experience reading and generating lists of tents.

Vango “Spirit 200+” was the only tent left standing at Applecross campsite a few years ago during a “Summer storm”. Campsite looked like it had been strafed by an A10 tank buster the following morning. Tent has now had more use than all the others combined and is still going strong. This is not an endorsement but an observation based on my own experience.

You pays your money and you takes your choice.

[willem jongman]

With outer first tents there is the issue of the dry inner getting wet when stuffed together with the wet outer. There is a simple solution, however: you can remove the inner while the outer is still standing in the rain. Put the inner in a separate light waterproof bag and in the evening you can pitch the wet outer first (if you have not been able to dry it during the day, and then hang the dry inner from the attachments.

[foxyrider]

I'm a Vaude fan - my Taurus has survived everything a decade of use could throw at it - no need for a footprint - i've woken up floating, its survived trees trying to flatten it, alpine storms, winds that literally flattened it - every time it's survived - I did replace a pole set after several seasons as the abuse had split a couple of sockets.

My Power Lizard is perhaps a bit more susceptible to condensation and hasn't had quite as much abuse but it's not failed in any way.

My examples have had no construction failures and compared to the Hubba's at least can be raised and lowered in much less time, my record on the Taurus is 4 mins from parking the bike to fully pegged tent.

Take a look at the Ultralight Outdoors website for some real life reviews and opinions on a wide range of brands and models.

As has been said, the best way to find out what works for you is to crawl around in a few tents. A decent shop will let you put stuff up to check out ease of raising, size etc.

[crazydave789]

I do wonder if the weight and technical obsessions are what is ruining tents or are they just building death into them like car parts just to save an insignificant amount of weight.

if MSR only expect a lifespan of 50 days then my TNF tadpole was amazing value all that time ago and long may it continue.

it seems many older tents will still last longer than their newer siblings