Sleeping Bag Advice

[TRM]

My girlfriend and I have done a couple of camping tours now, as well as general camping, and have been having issues with our old cheepy sleeping bags and waking up freezing cold in the night.

So i'm looking for advice on a suitable, small, lightweight sleeping bag that can easily fit into panniers (ortliebs).
We do end up camping in spring (early April) and autumn (September/October) so I guess we would need a comfort temperature of around 5 degrees C.

From my internet research i've found this from decathlon which looks good. They have non-down ones but they are much bigger and heavier.
https://www.decathlon.co.uk/trek-900-0- ... 92771.html

We are happy to spend a bit of money for a quality product so does anyone have any suggestions?

Thanks!

TRM

[profpointy]

Looks pretty good on paper at least and a good price for a down bag, even a summer one.

Decades ago I bought a snugpak (Cotswold's own brand) synthetic bag for the summer and it was excellent for its size and weight. Dunno if they're still as good

That said I migth even get the decathlon one for myself as the Snugpak's not quite aa warm as it once was - after 30 years to be fair

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,
Best advice I can give is to NOT wear anything in bag and you need a mat, even a 6 mm solid foam mat works well.
Down will probably have to weigh at least 800 grams to a kilo.
Synthetic 1.5 kgs will do it.
That's for 5 C three season.

[pjclinch]

What you wear or not in a sleeping bag is really down to personal preference, but if you're happier in PJs I see no reason to think that should adversely affect the sleeping temperature. Either some PJs and/or a liner help keep the bag clean, which is worth doing with down because they're a pain to wash yourself (and even more of a pain to dry yourself) and quite expensive to have cleaned professionally.

Down doesn't insulate when compressed (i.e., when you're sleeping on top of it) so the advice for a mat is good. Look for R values on insulation, more is better insulation. Mat choice also affects physical comfort, so while a thinnish closed cell mat is effective as insulation you might not find it comfortable, especially if you sleep on your side which makes hips in to pressure points. I very much like Neo-Air mats but they are dear, self-inflaters are cheaper and almost as comfy, but weigh and bulk more.

How insulating a bag needs to be is quite personal. I used to have a ME expedition bag rated down to -25 and I only ever got the zip done up all the way for a whole night on one occasion, when it was under -20C outside the tent. I eventually sold it to a particularly cold-sleeping friend who was quite happy using it in pleasant summer weather. The ratings are a useful indication to compare Brand X to Brand Y, but you need to gauge your own "sleeping temperature" from experience.

Decathlon have a reputation for good quality kit at good prices. They don't claim to be the best, but they do what is expected for a fair price. Not personally used their sleeping bags but the company name is good enough that I'd be happy to try it.

Pete.

[TRM]

Thanks for all the advice.
We have some pretty decent self inflating type mats which do a good job and are pretty comfy, but i think i will also invest in some liners to increase warmth and also the life of the bag.

How insulating a bag needs to be is quite personal. I used to have a ME expedition bag rated down to -25 and I only ever got the zip done up all the way for a whole night on one occasion, when it was under -20C outside the tent. I eventually sold it to a particularly cold-sleeping friend who was quite happy using it in pleasant summer weather. The ratings are a useful indication to compare Brand X to Brand Y, but you need to gauge your own "sleeping temperature" from experience.

Decathlon have a reputation for good quality kit at good prices. They don't claim to be the best, but they do what is expected for a fair price. Not personally used their sleeping bags but the company name is good enough that I'd be happy to try it.

It sounds like the bag I linked should be warm enough for spring/autumn as neither of us are particularly cold sleepers.
Having had a look round the usual outdoor shops there isn't really anything cheaper with the same comfort rating and as its an EN standardised rating, one from decathlon should perform similarly to a more expensive RAB/Vango etc.. albeit with lower quality materials and a slight weight and size penalty.


TRM

[PH]

For me, size is everything, there is no way I could sleep comfortably in a bag like the one linked however warm it kept me. Are you using something a similar size now? Also consider heat regulation as well as retention, in warmer weather a full length zip helps with this.
I've gone to the other extreme and use a camping quilt, have been doing so for over a decade, they're becoming increasingly common with a lot more choice now. For two they make even more sense.

[TRM]

For me, size is everything, there is no way I could sleep comfortably in a bag like the one linked however warm it kept me. Are you using something a similar size now? Also consider heat regulation as well as retention, in warmer weather a full length zip helps with this.
I've gone to the other extreme and use a camping quilt, have been doing so for over a decade, they're becoming increasingly common with a lot more choice now. For two they make even more sense.

Interesting, I hadn't considered a quilt. I get what you mean by wanting space while sleeping and see how it could work well for two, but how does the packed size compare with a bag? also do you then just sleep on the matt with nothing underneath you?

[pjclinch]

Camping quilts aren't necessarily the same as the first thing that probably popped in to your head... Something between that and a trad sleeping bag. Google e.g. Thermarest quilts and you'll get an idea, it's not just packing up the duvet from your bed.

As for would you just sleep on the mat... why not? Another "game changer" from the not too distant past was the "top bag", a sleeping bag with a slot for a mat but no insulation under the sleeper, on the grounds that down insulation under you has little practical effect anyway, so why bother? It was a very valid design idea, fouled up by people who don't sleep flat on their backs and moved around , as these people would create cooling air spaces that wouldn't exist with a conventional bag. The quilt takes the idea that the mat is what stops you getting cold underneath but doesn't attach it quite so restrictively to the bag.
Sleeping directly on a plastic mat might have peel-yourself-off connotations, but some light PJs should deal with that.

Pete.

[PH]

For me, size is everything, there is no way I could sleep comfortably in a bag like the one linked however warm it kept me. Are you using something a similar size now? Also consider heat regulation as well as retention, in warmer weather a full length zip helps with this.
I've gone to the other extreme and use a camping quilt, have been doing so for over a decade, they're becoming increasingly common with a lot more choice now. For two they make even more sense.

Interesting, I hadn't considered a quilt. I get what you mean by wanting space while sleeping and see how it could work well for two, but how does the packed size compare with a bag? also do you then just sleep on the matt with nothing underneath you?

Weight wise, my down quilt is 790g. One of the reasons a quilt might make more sense for two is a double isn't twice the weight of a singe.
I find it at least as warm as a bag, though ensuring I have a well insulated mat helps with that. It's rated for winter use but I'm a three season camper so haven't really tested it, I have woken up with frost on the ground and still been warm.
For comfort, I put the mat in a rectangular sleeping bag liner, this gives a very comfortable surface to sleep on and also stops the noise mats can make on the tent groundsheet. I also sleep in PJs (Silk of course ) which weigh next to nothing and are a useful extra layer to have along anyway.
Decent quilts are not cheap, the comparable one to mine is currently $300, though there's a fair bit more choice now. It is a big investment, but it's a cheap experiment as you could try camping with a domestic one to see if you like it, which is what I did.
http://www.jacksrbetter.com/quilts/

[andrew_s]

Quilts do work nicely, but they do vary, between a plain rectangle like you'd throw over the bed at home, to a sleeping bag with the part you would be lying on absent.
I move about a lot, so I got a plain rectangle version from backcountry.scot (who also do good bags under the Criterion brand). Comes with elastic drawcords at head and foot, elastic attachment points along the sides, and elastics with cord grips to go under the mat

[crazydave789]

do you zip together? I sleep hot and the missus sleeps cold so we struggled to balance it out. we have down bags but zipped together I can't cope and it ends up a sweaty mess which is smellier and harder to dry. down compresses too so if like me you move a lot in the night you get a lot of cold spots until it lofts up again.

also you can add temperature rating to a bag but it is much harder to take it away. so a light 1-2 season summer bag and a mid weight 2-3 bag gives you flexibility. using a liner and a bivvy bag adds a season for little weight and space. it's also easier to pack than the medicine ball of a 4 season bag.

the perfect doss bag is like the perfect tent, hard to find.

also the decathlon stuff is very good. they do not shirk on quality.

[philsknees]

For Spring/Summer/Autumn cycle camping in a bag rated to 5C I'd suggest something with a full zip which isn't as specialised as a quilt but can be opened up in hot weather & allow you to stick your limbs out.
The Decathlon bag you've seen seems to have an extreme, very narrow cut, particularly at the foot. If you want to be comfortable, move around & occasionally move your legs independently then a broader foot would be advisable. Feeling constricted will keep most people awake as much as being cold.
Whilst agreeing with the earlier warm/cold sleeper comments, equally important is how you use the bag. It's designed to retain the heat your body produces. I once spent a very frosty night, toasty warm, in a +5C rated bag while my companion shivered in his -25C bag. The difference was that after a long day he'd crawled straight into his bag whilst I fuelled up on some food & a hot drink which allowed me to generate plenty of warmth. If you are cold it's also worth exercising a bit, just to get your blood moving before getting in your bag.
One point not made is that a mesh inner tent will be considerably colder in the "shoulder" seasons than one with a nylon inner.
If you intend to camp often go for the best quality down bag you can afford that meets your requirements. While more expensive, if looked after, down bags last much longer than synthetics. Synthetics are better if you're planning to be washed out frequently but they don't meet your weight & packability requirements.
Check out the internet for big name manufacturers updating their ranges & then check for their old models on offer with online suppliers. You may have to pay up to £150 for the spec you want but they will be quality bags which will give you 15 years good service.

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,
Good advise from "philsknees".
I have several bags from 600 grams synthetic to over 2000 grams.
I sweat a lot and remember that even after stopping if you have fuelled up well in ride you carry on generating heat for some time and food generates heat.
the downside is that you will still sweat for some time in the bag even if you say I don't sweat much, this is where chills will set in if you wear clothes that harbour moisture, that evaporates and cools you down.
If clothes in bag then light as possible to retain least moisture.
As said standard bags are cut just so so if you are over six foot and over 80 kgs most bags will be tight.
Don't skimp on size and warmth unless you are adventurous and half hard.
Anyone would rather carry extra Ibs rather than a bad nights sleep.
They do market large width bags but these tend to be aimed at weekend car tent campers, so cheap but several weights which will suit most.
Mountain size bags are the ones to go for, longer and slightly wider than the 2100 x 80 x 50 cm bags which are the norm.
Bags are a bit more practical if there is wind in a three season tent even in summer, long zip makes into a quilt and zipped gives most protection.

Happy camping.

[MrsHJ]

Camping quilts aren't necessarily the same as the first thing that probably popped in to your head... Something between that and a trad sleeping bag. Google e.g. Thermarest quilts and you'll get an idea, it's not just packing up the duvet from your bed.

As for would you just sleep on the mat... why not? Another "game changer" from the not too distant past was the "top bag", a sleeping bag with a slot for a mat but no insulation under the sleeper, on the grounds that down insulation under you has little practical effect anyway, so why bother? It was a very valid design idea, fouled up by people who don't sleep flat on their backs and moved around , as these people would create cooling air spaces that wouldn't exist with a conventional bag. The quilt takes the idea that the mat is what stops you getting cold underneath but doesn't attach it quite so restrictively to the bag.
Sleeping directly on a plastic mat might have peel-yourself-off connotations, but some light PJs should deal with that.

Pete.

That's really interesting for me too, I was out of date and some of them look to link with your sleeping mat with like a sheet section to avoid the peeling off situation. thanks Pete.

[pjclinch]

I sweat a lot and remember that even after stopping if you have fuelled up well in ride you carry on generating heat for some time and food generates heat.
the downside is that you will still sweat for some time in the bag even if you say I don't sweat much, this is where chills will set in if you wear clothes that harbour moisture, that evaporates and cools you down.
If clothes in bag then light as possible to retain least moisture.

These are fair points, and I'd say if using PJs make them clean rather than just go to bed in what you were riding in. Not only do you avoid the excess of moisture NA notes but it helps keep the bag cleaner.

As said standard bags are cut just so so if you are over six foot and over 80 kgs most bags will be tight.
Don't skimp on size and warmth unless you are adventurous and half hard.

I don't think there's a formal standard, and just as Brand X sometimes cuts stuff more generously than Brand Y I wouldn't be surprised if it goes for pits too. Best to have a test-lie to be sure. If you have to go mail order consider a selection and send back the excess. Note that too big isn't necessarily a Great Idea: less thermally efficient (i.e. colder) and more weight and bulk to carry. Also be aware that, as with size, insulation is another place where you can have too much of a good thing. Yes, you can undo the zip and/or use it as a quilt, but this tends to lead to a mix of too hot and too cold, rather than comfortable.

Pete.