The end of "wild" camping?

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mercalia
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The end of "wild" camping?

Postby mercalia » 11 Sep 2018, 9:56am

"Ministers are being urged to change their policy and "make deliberate trespass a criminal offence". "

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45479975

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meic
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Re: The end of "wild" camping?

Postby meic » 11 Sep 2018, 10:08am

A change in the law would give police greater power to move travellers on.

"If they did not do so, they could be arrested, and their vehicles could be impounded - which, believe you me, would be a very powerful deterrent to the travelling community."


This would not affect my wildcamping, if I was caught and asked to move on, I do so as quick and apologetically as I could.
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pjclinch
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Re: The end of "wild" camping?

Postby pjclinch » 11 Sep 2018, 10:13am

In civilised bits of the country (e.g., Scotland) wild camping is formally recognised in the Access legislation, so not really an issue here.

Plenty of guidance available...
Often seen riding a bike around Dundee...

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meic
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Re: The end of "wild" camping?

Postby meic » 11 Sep 2018, 10:20am

That only applies in areas were access rights exist.
Many wild campers dont restrict themselves to areas where access rights exist.
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brynpoeth
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Re: The end of "wild" camping?

Postby brynpoeth » 11 Sep 2018, 10:22am

Is it only allowed in Scotland?
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PH
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Re: The end of "wild" camping?

Postby PH » 11 Sep 2018, 10:39am

No, it has nothing to do with wild camping, its not even much of a story about travellers, there's been a bit of debate that's all.
I dislike the term "wild camping" unless that's what it is and little of my cycling takes me anywhere wild enough to qualify. Most of my "off site camping" isn't very wild at all - picnic area, farmers field, parkland, river bank... arrive late and leave early and with the exception of the occasional dog walker no one knows you were there. The only time I've come into contact with a farmer I was already packing up and rather than telling me "get orff my land" he sold me some eggs. Has any off site camper ever been prosecuted for trespass? The law is based on damages, if you don't do any I can't see it ever being an issue.
The problem with traveller camps has always been there, at one time (1970s?) councils were under an obligation to provide sites, but most found a way not to and the requirement was dropped some time later (1990s?) I don't know the answer and I doubt the Tory MP in the link does either.

mercalia
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Re: The end of "wild" camping?

Postby mercalia » 11 Sep 2018, 10:44am

PH wrote:No, it has nothing to do with wild camping, its not even much of a story about travellers, there's been a bit of debate that's all.
I dislike the term "wild camping" unless that's what it is and little of my cycling takes me anywhere wild enough to qualify. Most of my "off site camping" isn't very wild at all - picnic area, farmers field, parkland, river bank... arrive late and leave early and with the exception of the occasional dog walker no one knows you were there. The only time I've come into contact with a farmer I was already packing up and rather than telling me "get orff my land" he sold me some eggs. Has any off site camper ever been prosecuted for trespass? The law is based on damages, if you don't do any I can't see it ever being an issue.
The problem with traveller camps has always been there, at one time (1970s?) councils were under an obligation to provide sites, but most found a way not to and the requirement was dropped some time later (1990s?) I don't know the answer and I doubt the Tory MP in the link does either.


yes it is - the law would have to be framed in such a way to make all tresspass ilegal and criminal trespass, irrespectice of any damage done or not?

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Sweep
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Re: The end of "wild" camping?

Postby Sweep » 11 Sep 2018, 10:49am

pjclinch wrote:In civilised bits of the country (e.g., Scotland) wild camping is formally recognised in the Access legislation, so not really an issue here.

Plenty of guidance available...


Now rather more limited I fear. I well remember car camping in Scotland and envying some folk camped by wondrous locks. A while ago limits were imposed near some bits of Loch Lomand but I was dismayed recently to find that the "licence areas" appear to have been dramatically extended in anything like seasonal time.
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Sweep
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Re: The end of "wild" camping?

Postby Sweep » 11 Sep 2018, 10:50am

PH wrote:Most of my "off site camping" isn't very wild at all - picnic area, farmers field, parkland, river bank... arrive late and leave early and with the exception of the occasional dog walker.


I think I'd be a bit wary of many picnic areas. Some I gather have been used for folks dogging without a dog.
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meic
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Re: The end of "wild" camping?

Postby meic » 11 Sep 2018, 10:56am

Free entertainment then. :lol:
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meic
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Re: The end of "wild" camping?

Postby meic » 11 Sep 2018, 11:01am

mercalia wrote:
PH wrote:No, it has nothing to do with wild camping, its not even much of a story about travellers, there's been a bit of debate that's all.
I dislike the term "wild camping" unless that's what it is and little of my cycling takes me anywhere wild enough to qualify. Most of my "off site camping" isn't very wild at all - picnic area, farmers field, parkland, river bank... arrive late and leave early and with the exception of the occasional dog walker no one knows you were there. The only time I've come into contact with a farmer I was already packing up and rather than telling me "get orff my land" he sold me some eggs. Has any off site camper ever been prosecuted for trespass? The law is based on damages, if you don't do any I can't see it ever being an issue.
The problem with traveller camps has always been there, at one time (1970s?) councils were under an obligation to provide sites, but most found a way not to and the requirement was dropped some time later (1990s?) I don't know the answer and I doubt the Tory MP in the link does either.


yes it is - the law would have to be framed in such a way to make all tresspass ilegal and criminal trespass, irrespectice of any damage done or not?


I think that it would be right to be alarmed by that headline.
If all trespass was criminal then my form of wild camping would become illegal along with many other harmless activities.
However if it only became an offence when somebody refuses to leave then I am fine with that as a fair law to balance the freedom to do what is harmless and the rights of landowners to enjoy their beneficial whatevers.
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Re: The end of "wild" camping?

Postby PH » 11 Sep 2018, 11:02am

mercalia wrote:
PH wrote:No, it has nothing to do with wild camping, its not even much of a story about travellers, there's been a bit of debate that's all.
I dislike the term "wild camping" unless that's what it is and little of my cycling takes me anywhere wild enough to qualify. Most of my "off site camping" isn't very wild at all - picnic area, farmers field, parkland, river bank... arrive late and leave early and with the exception of the occasional dog walker no one knows you were there. The only time I've come into contact with a farmer I was already packing up and rather than telling me "get orff my land" he sold me some eggs. Has any off site camper ever been prosecuted for trespass? The law is based on damages, if you don't do any I can't see it ever being an issue.
The problem with traveller camps has always been there, at one time (1970s?) councils were under an obligation to provide sites, but most found a way not to and the requirement was dropped some time later (1990s?) I don't know the answer and I doubt the Tory MP in the link does either.


yes it is - the law would have to be framed in such a way to make all tresspass ilegal and criminal trespass, irrespectice of any damage done or not?

Well you don't know how the law would be framed, neither do I, though I'd be surprised if any law aimed at travellers didn't directly address that issue. There is no Government or private members Bill making any proposal, there is no white paper, there is nothing to the story except some Tory MP trying to get his name in the paper to please his constituents. I'm already breaking the law when I camp on someones land without their permission, the recent law in Ireland which the MP is suggesting we emulate allows for instant eviction without the need for a court order. Campers are going to move when asked anyway, but the whole idea, of my camping, is to not put myself in a position where I'll be asked.

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Re: The end of "wild" camping?

Postby PH » 11 Sep 2018, 11:16am

Sweep wrote:
PH wrote:Most of my "off site camping" isn't very wild at all - picnic area, farmers field, parkland, river bank... arrive late and leave early and with the exception of the occasional dog walker.


I think I'd be a bit wary of many picnic areas. Some I gather have been used for folks dogging without a dog.

Ha, yes care needs to be taken whenever choosing where to camp. Avoiding a dodgy picnic spot is no harder than avoiding a field of cows.

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Sweep
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Re: The end of "wild" camping?

Postby Sweep » 11 Sep 2018, 11:51am

PH wrote:
Sweep wrote:
PH wrote:Most of my "off site camping" isn't very wild at all - picnic area, farmers field, parkland, river bank... arrive late and leave early and with the exception of the occasional dog walker.


I think I'd be a bit wary of many picnic areas. Some I gather have been used for folks dogging without a dog.

Ha, yes care needs to be taken whenever choosing where to camp. Avoiding a dodgy picnic spot is no harder than avoiding a field of cows.

Ta for the reply PH.

Do you have a nose for dodgy picnic sites?

Clues?

Some I think are also used by partying youngsters. I'd much prefer the doggers to those.
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meic
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Re: The end of "wild" camping?

Postby meic » 11 Sep 2018, 11:57am

The worst thing by far is real dogs.

From destroying the peace and keeping you awake barking, to leaving presents on your potential campsite to disturbing you in the early morning.
Just like when you are not wild camping really.
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