Gas stove or petrol?

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hufty
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Re: Gas stove or petrol?

Postby hufty » 25 Mar 2019, 8:08pm

Petrol stoves are not dangerous I use mine all the time.
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Graham O
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Re: Gas stove or petrol?

Postby Graham O » 26 Mar 2019, 8:58am

pwa wrote:Petrol is dangerous. Having seen a couple of incidents with the stuff it would be hard to convince me to give it a try.


I've seen more incidents with gas than I have with petrol and even 2 with Trangias. If you follow the correct procedures, then the risks are probably about the same with any of them. I used petrol exclusively for about 15 years, but now find that gas is so convenient, (but I don't do the extreme things I used to do).

When it comes to stoves, I've been very impressed with Soto petrol stoves as they don't need priming even at -30C and, if you follow the correct procedure, flaring doesn't happen. I had a look at their new multifuel stove recently, and the gas canister is upside down; it is, after all, a liquid fuel stove. Very impressed and if you pour some hot water in the dimple in the bottom of the cannister, you can get almost all the gas out.

Brucey
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Re: Gas stove or petrol?

Postby Brucey » 26 Mar 2019, 10:35am

anecdote alert:

many years ago as a callow yoof I went into the wilds with some well-experienced folk and we had camping gaz stoves, several between us. It was cold and damp, just above freezing. In the morning, after the most wretched night I have ever spent under canvas, we boiled a pint of water, and one of the stoves pretty much conked out. I (was) volunteered to change the cartridge, and being safety conscious, and despite suffering what felt like a moderate case of exposure at the time, I staggered out of the tent to a nearby rock and set to. IIRC there was the barest 'pfft' as I disconnected the old cartridge, which I left on top of the rock. however by the time I'd fitted the new cartridge there was a very strong smell of gas; having checked the new cartridge connection for leaks, I looked down, amazed, to see the old cartridge sat in a puddle, where no puddle had been before. Turned out that the old cartridge was still about a third full (something which wasn't obvious when the thing was shaken BTW), just very cold (it had got even colder by virtue of being discharged, and the damp conditions had caused plenty of condensation too) so the puddle it was sat in was liquid gas.... :shock: Had I been doing this closer to the tent (where there was still another lit stove going) then anything could have happened. As it happens we were only able to cook breakfast by using one stove to heat another; even then we needed to swap them every few minutes.... it gives me the willies just thinking about it now....

Now that gas mix has a fairly low vapour pressure and suffers more than most when the canister gets cold. The cartridges didn't seal when they were removed, either. Modern gas stoves have moved on and different gas mixes, liquid feeds into the burner, and self-sealing cartridges are all big improvements for sure.

But my point is really that it is the unexpected things that are likely to catch you out, and unexpected things are, by definition, a bit of a surprise when they happen. Any fuel can catch you out, it is just that it is likely to happen in different ways with different fuels. Had you asked me beforehand if it was possible to have a liquid fuel spill with the camping gaz, I'd have laughed and said 'don't be stupid'; yet that is exactly what I saw with my own eyes.

Fact is, if you have a pint of any liquid fuel (including pressurised gas), you have the makings of a pretty fair explosion/confligration on your hands. It is just that the exact circumstances which might cause this are liable to be different. Familiarity with any given fuel probably trumps most inherent differences between them.

cheers
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bigjim
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Re: Gas stove or petrol?

Postby bigjim » 26 Mar 2019, 2:29pm

I prefer gas. I use a £4 adapter to enable me to use the common cylinder type containers. They cost me about €2 each last time I was in France. Last for ages and available everywhere.
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Sweep
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Re: Gas stove or petrol?

Postby Sweep » 26 Mar 2019, 7:17pm

Can I ask where you got that adaptor bigjim?

Do you have a link?

Do youuse it a lot - ie - is it reliable/safe?

I have an adaptor which does the same thing but not like yours - it just goes on top (OK - side when it is laid down) of the cartridge but doesn't ensure that it's outlet stays the right way up as yours seems to do.
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bigjim
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Re: Gas stove or petrol?

Postby bigjim » 26 Mar 2019, 7:32pm

Sweep wrote:Can I ask where you got that adaptor bigjim?

Do you have a link?

Do youuse it a lot - ie - is it reliable/safe?

I have an adaptor which does the same thing but not like yours - it just goes on top (OK - side when it is laid down) of the cartridge but doesn't ensure that it's outlet stays the right way up as yours seems to do.

Ebay.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Outdoor-Camping-Gas-Stove-Adapter-Three-Leg-Transfer-Head-Nozzle-Screwgatel-S-K/362496129040?hash=item546673f810:g:R8cAAOSwn5RZiqTA
I have used it a lot on tour. A few times a day. I often stop for a brew up as well as morning and evening meals. Never had a problem with it. It's pretty simple. I bought a spare as well. I found that it makes the stove even more stable.
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andrew_s
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Re: Gas stove or petrol?

Postby andrew_s » 26 Mar 2019, 7:36pm

Brucey wrote:anecdote alert:I looked down, amazed, to see the old cartridge sat in a puddle, where no puddle had been before. Turned out that the old cartridge was still about a third full (something which wasn't obvious when the thing was shaken BTW), just very cold (it had got even colder by virtue of being discharged, and the damp conditions had caused plenty of condensation too) so the puddle it was sat in was liquid gas.... :shock:

That's pretty much to be expected.
If the canister is used upright, as is normal, even if the gas was originally a mix, it will be down to pure butane by the time it's 2/3 used, and it doesn't have to be all that cold to get below butane's boiling point (-1°C), at which point you'll get "empty canister" performance even though the canister's 1/3 full of liquid gas..

Avoiding this is why I always use a remote canister/preheat loop stove, with the canister upside down apart from startup. Because I'm feeding liquid gas, the propane proportion of the mix doesn't change (much), there's always pressure, and I get good performance right to the end.

My anecdote about the danger of gas (around 1989-91):
The two lads in the next tent to mine were using two stoves - one for spag, one for bol, or whatever, and one of the stoves ran out. Rather than taking the stove to the new canister, the canister was fetched to the stove.
The changeover was done in a ham-fisted manner (cross-threaded?), the valve got opened before there was a seal, and there was a flashover from the other stove. The lad dropped the stove & canister, with flames shooting out the side, but didn't otherwise seem to know what to do about it, so I dashed over and kicked the stove 30 yards across the field (mainly to just get it away, but it also put out the flames).

st599_uk
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Re: Gas stove or petrol?

Postby st599_uk » 26 Mar 2019, 8:53pm

I used to work at a Scout campsite and can vividly remember the time a lad dropped a full canister into a fire to see what would happen.
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st599_uk
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Re: Gas stove or petrol?

Postby st599_uk » 26 Mar 2019, 9:23pm

bigjim wrote:
Sweep wrote:Can I ask where you got that adaptor bigjim?

Do you have a link?

Do youuse it a lot - ie - is it reliable/safe?

I have an adaptor which does the same thing but not like yours - it just goes on top (OK - side when it is laid down) of the cartridge but doesn't ensure that it's outlet stays the right way up as yours seems to do.

Ebay.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Outdoor-Camping-Gas-Stove-Adapter-Three-Leg-Transfer-Head-Nozzle-Screwgatel-S-K/362496129040?hash=item546673f810:g:R8cAAOSwn5RZiqTA
I have used it a lot on tour. A few times a day. I often stop for a brew up as well as morning and evening meals. Never had a problem with it. It's pretty simple. I bought a spare as well. I found that it makes the stove even more stable.
Presumably the canister can only fit in one way up?
A novice learning...
“the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible.”

Brucey
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Re: Gas stove or petrol?

Postby Brucey » 28 Mar 2019, 12:15am

st599_uk wrote:I used to work at a Scout campsite and can vividly remember the time a lad dropped a full canister into a fire to see what would happen.


I can only imagine.. :shock: .. but maybe you can describe what did happen...?

cheers
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Sweep
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Re: Gas stove or petrol?

Postby Sweep » 28 Mar 2019, 9:24am

Brucey wrote:
st599_uk wrote:I used to work at a Scout campsite and can vividly remember the time a lad dropped a full canister into a fire to see what would happen.


I can only imagine.. :shock: .. but maybe you can describe what did happen...?

cheers

:)
Yes i too was wondering.

Good to see that the british spirit of enquiry isn't dead.

Must surely be a special badge for that scout.

I used to be in a troop that had an explosives experimenter, though he didn't use gas cannisters.
Sweep

st599_uk
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Re: Gas stove or petrol?

Postby st599_uk » 28 Mar 2019, 10:18am

It involved a small mushroom cloud, some shrapnel and some singed tents.

Luckily canvas otherwise they would have melted on to the occupants.
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nick12
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Re: Gas stove or petrol?

Postby nick12 » 28 Mar 2019, 12:28pm

You always get one dont you.

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foxyrider
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Re: Gas stove or petrol?

Postby foxyrider » 28 Mar 2019, 1:28pm

Sweep wrote:
Brucey wrote:
st599_uk wrote:I used to work at a Scout campsite and can vividly remember the time a lad dropped a full canister into a fire to see what would happen.


I can only imagine.. :shock: .. but maybe you can describe what did happen...?

cheers

:)
Yes i too was wondering.

Good to see that the british spirit of enquiry isn't dead.

Must surely be a special badge for that scout.

I used to be in a troop that had an explosives experimenter, though he didn't use gas cannisters.


It's the Darwin badge
Convention? what's that then?
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philsknees
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Re: Gas stove or petrol?

Postby philsknees » 29 Mar 2019, 11:47am

I think it's very much down to the type of cylinder & the gas mix it contains but most of the "experiments" I witnessed (in the years before technology when one had to create one's own entertainment :wink: ) resulted in a loud bang, the fire being blown apart & the cylinder disappearing into the night sky leaving everyone looking nervously upwards until a distant tinkle announced it had landed, hopefully some distance away. Looking back I'm amazed tents in the vicinity weren't set on fire.
Anecdote warning (again!):
I once visited Skye after a huge NATO military exercise & came across several sniper's "nests" high in the Cuillin, usually with a scattering of blank shell casings some of which were unused. Back in the day, those for whom a handy bar was a priority wild-camped around the Sligachan hotel and post-pub there was often a get-together around the camp fire of whoever had found some wood. One bright spark (a spaced out hippy type if I recall correctly) revealed his day's haul of unfired blank shells and threw a handful of them onto the fire. As the rest of us dived for whatever cover they could find, the culprit sat there saying "they're only blanks" - until the hot brass started flying around!
Two of us arrived one night, soaked & cold, in a remote bothy which had recently been vacated by the army & were grateful to put a match to the fire that had been laid by the previous occupants when they left, as was the custom. We didn't see the funny side of it, flattened against the walls either side of the fireplace when the blanks they'd concealed in it started firing off but after clearing up the mess we soon forgave them when we found the welcome stash of surplus rations they'd left.
Great days........