Gas stove or petrol?

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Brucey
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Re: Gas stove or petrol?

Postby Brucey » 19 Dec 2018, 7:21pm

how easy is it to buy alcohol fuel in Indonesia? Or do you plan to convert the Trangia to use a different fuel?

Regarding pump petrol toxicity; just because you have low octane fuel does not mean it won't have nasty components in it. It will vary from one manufacturer to another of course (as well country to country). There is a list of additives/toxic components here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_gasoline_additives

cheers
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thelawnet
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Re: Gas stove or petrol?

Postby thelawnet » 19 Dec 2018, 7:37pm

Brucey wrote:how easy is it to buy alcohol fuel in Indonesia? Or do you plan to convert the Trangia to use a different fuel?


well you can order methanol quite easily online, and then it seems I can probably find surgical spirit (96% ethanol) in pharmacies, possibly in small towns/villages, certainly in larger ones. Possibly 70% alcohol is easier to find/ubiquitous, I think it's in heavy use as a disinfectant, suspect the remainder is water so presumably would not be such a good fuel....

Brucey
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Re: Gas stove or petrol?

Postby Brucey » 19 Dec 2018, 7:49pm

you don't mean pure methanol do you? This is used as a racing fuel but it is really poisonous and I don't think it is suitable for use in a stove. Check the ingredients carefully!

cheers
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thelawnet
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Re: Gas stove or petrol?

Postby thelawnet » 19 Dec 2018, 7:58pm

Brucey wrote:you don't mean pure methanol do you? This is used as a racing fuel but it is really poisonous and I don't think it is suitable for use in a stove. Check the ingredients carefully!


i'm not sure tbh. it's called 'spiritus', and it's in theory methanol, but it may in fact be methylated spirits. they are a bit vague about such matters. lots of toxic stuff being burned and dodgy carcinogens abound.

methanol poisoning is generally from drinking the stuff but maybe it's bad through skin & what not.

mattsccm
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Re: Gas stove or petrol?

Postby mattsccm » 19 Dec 2018, 8:32pm

Many decades ago a mate had an old MSR XGK ??? stove. It would burn any vaguely combustible liquid. Calorific/environmental issues were irrelevant. Diesel, heating oil and TVO were popular as they were cheap and east to get. He had used rum in the Caribbean as it was cheaper, easier to get and burnt better . A side benefit was that you only needed to carry one "fuel" bottle or flask and if things got critical you drank from the stove! :D

thelawnet
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Re: Gas stove or petrol?

Postby thelawnet » 19 Dec 2018, 10:05pm

mattsccm wrote:Many decades ago a mate had an old MSR XGK ??? stove. It would burn any vaguely combustible liquid. Calorific/environmental issues were irrelevant. Diesel, heating oil and TVO were popular as they were cheap and east to get. He had used rum in the Caribbean as it was cheaper, easier to get and burnt better . A side benefit was that you only needed to carry one "fuel" bottle or flask and if things got critical you drank from the stove! :D


there is something called 'tuak suling', which is the liquid of the aren sugar palm fermented then distilled in bamboo pipes. Allegedly the alcohol content is 90%+. But I think it is not cheap, though as you say multifunctional....

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nick12
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Re: Gas stove or petrol?

Postby nick12 » 20 Dec 2018, 9:07am

I haven't tryed aspen 4, only ever run the dragon fly on colemans fuel. Will try it next time I need some fuel.

Regarding the frying pan in the trangia set it should come non stick as standard now surely. Mine must be 20 year old and its just the same as a new one. I've never used the frying pan as such its a plate or a base for my pop can stove if I'm cooking in the tent.

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nick12
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Re: Gas stove or petrol?

Postby nick12 » 20 Dec 2018, 9:26am

Spiritus was easy to buy everywhere 20 years ago in Indonesia when many of the remote villages didn't have electricity. Used to prime storm lamps (Tilley lamp) most of the night markets and roadside coffee shops used the lamps too. But nowadays you don't see many of them so the fuel is hard to find.
Most decent sized apotek ( chemist) will have the 96% alcohol. I should imagine spiritus is cheaper and more fuel efficient but don't know as I'm still waiting to find some and try it.

thelawnet
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Re: Gas stove or petrol?

Postby thelawnet » 20 Dec 2018, 9:30am

nick12 wrote:I haven't tryed aspen 4, only ever run the dragon fly on colemans fuel. Will try it next time I need some fuel.

Regarding the frying pan in the trangia set it should come non stick as standard now surely. Mine must be 20 year old and its just the same as a new one. I've never used the frying pan as such its a plate or a base for my pop can stove if I'm cooking in the tent.


the different permutations are

25 - 1.75/1.5l saucepan, 22cm frying pan
27 - 1l/1l saucepan, 18cm frying pan

-1 aluminium, -3/-9 alu & teflon frying pan, -5 all teflon
-2/-8 add kettle 0.9l (25) or 0.6l (27), -4/-0 teflon frying pan , -6 all teflon

HA hard-anodized (same weight, should be less sticky)
ULHA same as HA but windshield not hard-anodized
ULD/duossal - stainless steel on aluminium laminate

Wouldn't want teflon under any circumstances. Anodized or stainless are good though. Might seek out a replacement stainless pan at some point.

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nick12
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Re: Gas stove or petrol?

Postby nick12 » 20 Dec 2018, 9:41am

The cooking set I'm using at the moment is hard anodized. I do like it compared to plain aluminium but again not tried frying . I only really use it for brews and dehydrated food.
What's the problem with teflon enlighten me.

thelawnet
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Re: Gas stove or petrol?

Postby thelawnet » 20 Dec 2018, 9:50am

nick12 wrote:Spiritus was easy to buy everywhere 20 years ago in Indonesia when many of the remote villages didn't have electricity. Used to prime storm lamps (Tilley lamp) most of the night markets and roadside coffee shops used the lamps too. But nowadays you don't see many of them so the fuel is hard to find.


Don't think that was spiritus. When I used to buy it, it was used for cooking & lighting, and it was referred to as 'minyak lampu' (lamp oil) or 'minyak tanah' (ground oil).

This is the stove we used: https://www.tokopedia.com/leoonline/kom ... 0014200002

There's a wick soaking in the oil, which is how it lights, the knob on the stove extends or retracts the wick.

Anyway 'minyak tanah' is otherwise known as paraffin or kerosene, and is not alcohol, it's a petroleum fraction.

Around 2007 the government introduced a programme to move from paraffin, which as a crude oil product is in short supply in Indonesia, to LPG, which is relatively plentiful offshore. So they removed the subsidy from paraffin, and distributed subsidised LPG instead.

Current official fuel prices in Indonesia:

gas LPG 3kg 17,000 rp = £0.93 for 3kg (subsidised & somewhat difficult to buy at the official price, unsubsidised LPG is also available)
petrol 1 litre = 7,000rp = £0.38 for 1l (subsidised and not restricted)
paraffin 1 litre = 11,660rp = £0.64 for 1l (unsubsidised)

Outside of official filling stations (i.e. from roadside sellers) petrol etc cost about 1500rp more than the prices above.

Paraffin used to be everywhere and was widely used for lighting fires etc. Now I think a lot of the time people just use petrol as it's cheaper and more readily obtainable. I'm not sure how well distributed exactly paraffin is now.

'Spiritus' is alcohol and is probably used by Scouts/camping trips etc. but I don't think normally people have any call for it whatsoever, so I wouldn't expect to find it in the middle of nowhere whereas you might well find paraffin as a relic for people who are scared of their house being blown up by dodgy LPG.

Paraffin would not be a suitable fuel for Trangia I think.
Last edited by thelawnet on 20 Dec 2018, 9:53am, edited 1 time in total.

thelawnet
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Re: Gas stove or petrol?

Postby thelawnet » 20 Dec 2018, 9:52am

nick12 wrote:What's the problem with teflon enlighten me.


Teflon is a plastic coating and will come off into your food. Teflon pans have a very finite lifespan & will need to be replaced after some uses, and can be destroyed in one use by improper cleaning, etc.

jerg
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Re: Gas stove or petrol?

Postby jerg » 20 Dec 2018, 9:54am

I've used my 30 year old old Optimus 123 petrol stove occasionally, which I run on Aspen 4T fuel (bought in 5 litre container from lawnmower suppliers). A small squirt of hand gel works fine as a primer and comes in a convenient sized bottle (current 'flavour' is satsuma, in a 60ml bottle from Boots the chemist).

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nick12
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Re: Gas stove or petrol?

Postby nick12 » 20 Dec 2018, 10:50am

Spiritus is used to heat the element on the storm light so that the kerosene minyak Tanah vaporizes it is not the fuel just used as a primer so that the mesh lamp and the glass doesn't soot up and blacken which leads me to believe that it is the equivalent of meths as that is what I use in my Tilley lamp to preheat the vapourizing tube.

Regarding the hock stove that's what the wife still cooks on she has a 22 and 30 wick stove. We pay 4000rp (20p) per litre which must be subsidized.

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nick12
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Re: Gas stove or petrol?

Postby nick12 » 20 Dec 2018, 10:59am

I tried the alcohol hand sanitizer in the pop can stove it burns ok but the last bit tends to smoke and give off a bad smell so I stopped using it. I'm sure its ok as a primer though. The type I tried on reading the label had allsorts of additives.