Gas stove or petrol?

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Psamathe
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Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: Gas stove or petrol?

Postby Psamathe » 11 Jan 2021, 7:59pm

nsew wrote:
Jdsk wrote:Has the SIGG fuel bottle been discontinued? Any recommended alternatives, and suitable cages, please?

Thanks

Jonathan


The Trangia bottles have a safe and accurate fuel delivery, mine has 10 years of hard use. I don’t like open top fuel bottles as it’s tricky to control the flow. Trangia come in 300, 500 & 1000ml. Sort of weekend, week, fortnight sizes dependent on use obviously. Cages are trickier, these will carry the 1000ml https://www.bikebuddy.co.uk/index.asp and https://www.cyclemiles.co.uk/shop/bromp ... _ysGC3fWhA Neither of which I have experience of but come recommended. The 500ml is loose in a regular bottle cage but can be fitted in a suitable tool bottle minus the cap.

Given these are high quality bottles with good seals and could be wedged in upright in a pannier, any reason why not carried in panniers? (e.g. in an additional sealed plastic bag).

It's years since I've used liquid fuel and I tended to carry the bottle in my rucksack "as is".

Ian

KTHSullivan
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Joined: 4 Aug 2017, 1:15pm
Location: Wind Swept Lincolnshire

Re: Buying and Carrying Meths/Alcohol for stoves

Postby KTHSullivan » 11 Jan 2021, 7:59pm

Meths will eat alloy bottles long term. If you have used a MSR or other bottle that is used on a pressure stove to store meths do not use it again on a pressure stove.
Just remember, when you’re over the hill, you begin to pick up speed. :lol:

nsew
Posts: 657
Joined: 14 Dec 2017, 12:38pm

Re: Gas stove or petrol?

Postby nsew » 11 Jan 2021, 8:50pm

Psamathe wrote:
nsew wrote:
Jdsk wrote:Has the SIGG fuel bottle been discontinued? Any recommended alternatives, and suitable cages, please?

Thanks

Jonathan


The Trangia bottles have a safe and accurate fuel delivery, mine has 10 years of hard use. I don’t like open top fuel bottles as it’s tricky to control the flow. Trangia come in 300, 500 & 1000ml. Sort of weekend, week, fortnight sizes dependent on use obviously. Cages are trickier, these will carry the 1000ml https://www.bikebuddy.co.uk/index.asp and https://www.cyclemiles.co.uk/shop/bromp ... _ysGC3fWhA Neither of which I have experience of but come recommended. The 500ml is loose in a regular bottle cage but can be fitted in a suitable tool bottle minus the cap.

Given these are high quality bottles with good seals and could be wedged in upright in a pannier, any reason why not carried in panniers? (e.g. in an additional sealed plastic bag).

It's years since I've used liquid fuel and I tended to carry the bottle in my rucksack "as is".

Ian


I can’t think of a reason to not carry meths in a suitable container in a pannier other than I prefer the liquid weight in that section of the frame and less clutter / availability of extra space in the pannier.

Bmblbzzz
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Location: From here to there.

Re: Gas stove or petrol?

Postby Bmblbzzz » 11 Jan 2021, 9:08pm

I've used the Monkii cage (nsew's second link) and can recommend it. Though I expect the Bike Buddy is also good.

nsew
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Joined: 14 Dec 2017, 12:38pm

Re: Buying and Carrying Meths/Alcohol for stoves

Postby nsew » 11 Jan 2021, 9:11pm

Bmblbzzz wrote:I've certainly bought 250ml of meths in the UK.

Not sure why a metal bottle is intrinsically better than a plastic one for meths -- except it's less likely to split, of course. But is there another reason?

Bike Buddy: Never had one, but have used a similar item from Topeak, which rattled horribly all the time. A better alternative (than the Topeak) is the Monkii cage: https://www.cyclemiles.co.uk/shop/bromp ... _yJ4tcYDIV I can confirm this holds items of various shapes and sizes very solidly, is easy to attach and remove, and does not rattle. The BikeBuddy doesn't look as if it will hold non-cylindrical items particularly securely, but it is a little cheaper.


Can you describe how stuff attaches to the Monkii, ie is that an adjustable band and with what type of fastening?

Jdsk
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Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Gas stove or petrol?

Postby Jdsk » 11 Jan 2021, 9:18pm

Psamathe wrote:Given these are high quality bottles with good seals and could be wedged in upright in a pannier, any reason why not carried in panniers? (e.g. in an additional sealed plastic bag).

It's years since I've used liquid fuel and I tended to carry the bottle in my rucksack "as is".

nsew wrote:I can’t think of a reason to not carry meths in a suitable container in a pannier other than I prefer the liquid weight in that section of the frame and less clutter / availability of extra space in the pannier.

My SIGG fuel bottle fits in its own size cage under the down tube. That leaves extra space in the panniers and if it's going to leak it's better there. It also goes back in there at the campsite.

When it's in a rucksack it's an outside pocket.

But I wouldn't be particularly bothered with it inside either.

Jonathan

PS: I think we've already discussed the last bit of alcohol supporting both combustion and consumption... : - )

Jdsk
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Re: Buying and Carrying Meths/Alcohol for stoves

Postby Jdsk » 11 Jan 2021, 9:20pm

nirakaro wrote:
st599_uk wrote:Just wondering if anyone has any information on what to ask for in various countries for Alcohol stove fuel?

In France it's called 'alcool a bruler' (alcohol for burning). Works like meths, but looks and smells like (very) cheap brandy!

https://bushwalkingnsw.org.au/clubsites/FAQ/FAQ_FuelNames.htm

Jonathan

Bmblbzzz
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Re: Buying and Carrying Meths/Alcohol for stoves

Postby Bmblbzzz » 12 Jan 2021, 9:59am

nsew wrote:
Bmblbzzz wrote:I've certainly bought 250ml of meths in the UK.

Not sure why a metal bottle is intrinsically better than a plastic one for meths -- except it's less likely to split, of course. But is there another reason?

Bike Buddy: Never had one, but have used a similar item from Topeak, which rattled horribly all the time. A better alternative (than the Topeak) is the Monkii cage: https://www.cyclemiles.co.uk/shop/bromp ... _yJ4tcYDIV I can confirm this holds items of various shapes and sizes very solidly, is easy to attach and remove, and does not rattle. The BikeBuddy doesn't look as if it will hold non-cylindrical items particularly securely, but it is a little cheaper.


Can you describe how stuff attaches to the Monkii, ie is that an adjustable band and with what type of fastening?

It's a loop with velcro on the reverse, so it can fasten as tight or as loose as you want. Can't remember off hand what the maximum length is but it might say on the website?

Jdsk
Posts: 5212
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Gas stove or petrol?

Postby Jdsk » 12 Jan 2021, 2:17pm

Jdsk wrote:Has the SIGG fuel bottle been discontinued? Any recommended alternatives, and suitable cages, please?

Thanks, all. Very helpful.

Jonathan

nsew
Posts: 657
Joined: 14 Dec 2017, 12:38pm

Re: Buying and Carrying Meths/Alcohol for stoves

Postby nsew » 12 Jan 2021, 10:25pm

Bmblbzzz wrote:
nsew wrote:
Bmblbzzz wrote:I've certainly bought 250ml of meths in the UK.

Not sure why a metal bottle is intrinsically better than a plastic one for meths -- except it's less likely to split, of course. But is there another reason?

Bike Buddy: Never had one, but have used a similar item from Topeak, which rattled horribly all the time. A better alternative (than the Topeak) is the Monkii cage: https://www.cyclemiles.co.uk/shop/bromp ... _yJ4tcYDIV I can confirm this holds items of various shapes and sizes very solidly, is easy to attach and remove, and does not rattle. The BikeBuddy doesn't look as if it will hold non-cylindrical items particularly securely, but it is a little cheaper.


Can you describe how stuff attaches to the Monkii, ie is that an adjustable band and with what type of fastening?

It's a loop with velcro on the reverse, so it can fasten as tight or as loose as you want. Can't remember off hand what the maximum length is but it might say on the website?


Yes found the video on the site. My interest is in finding a cage to support a 1L fuel bottle but room is limited in that area under the down tube. The Bike Buddy MkII can be positioned lower on the down tube but needs to be unclipped to release the bottle. The MkIII releases as one with the bottle like the Monkii which is ideal but not if it interferes with the mudguard. More research needed.

Bmblbzzz
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Location: From here to there.

Re: Gas stove or petrol?

Postby Bmblbzzz » 12 Jan 2021, 10:47pm

I have tried a Monkii in the same position, not for fuel but for a tool tub. In the end I went back to a standard bottle cage there, partly because it was easier to remove without clouting the mudguard. It depends on the bike, obviously, but on my tourer a 1l bottle in that position would be overly ambitious whatever the fastening method. However, I do use a Monkii with a 1.5l bottle (of water) on the upper side of the down tube.

nsew
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Joined: 14 Dec 2017, 12:38pm

Re: Buying and Carrying Meths/Alcohol for stoves

Postby nsew » 12 Jan 2021, 11:41pm

Psamathe wrote:
nsew wrote:I wish I had a dollar for every time i’ve heard a fellow traveller saying they need to find a gas canister. And a further dollar for every time they’ve complained about how long they last.

I would agree - and I use gass and chasing down bottles (even in France) can be a pain. I carry adapters for the different bottles (screw burner, bayonet for France and another for aerosol style bottles).

Next trip I hope to buy a multi-fuel so gas can tide me over between liquid fuel top-ups. (But I'm open to other suggestions)

Ian


It takes quite an initial leap and some outlay to change systems but doesn’t mean you’re abandoning one for the other. When I discovered travelling by bike was a fantastic way to travel I left with no cooking gear, relying solely on instant coffee frappes, milk powder drinks & water. Food was ready to eat. One cup, one spoon and a knife. That system worked perfectly well now I think about it, it was clean, effortless and took up minimal space. Nowadays there’s no way I’d go without the ability to light up the wood stove or fire up the meths burner. That dual system has never let me down and can be obtained cheaply from eBay https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/313345375839 and here https://speedsterstoves.co.uk/alcohol/m ... rners.html.

nsew
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Joined: 14 Dec 2017, 12:38pm

Re: Gas stove or petrol?

Postby nsew » 13 Jan 2021, 12:06am

Bmblbzzz wrote:I have tried a Monkii in the same position, not for fuel but for a tool tub. In the end I went back to a standard bottle cage there, partly because it was easier to remove without clouting the mudguard. It depends on the bike, obviously, but on my tourer a 1l bottle in that position would be overly ambitious whatever the fastening method. However, I do use a Monkii with a 1.5l bottle (of water) on the upper side of the down tube.


The 1L Trangia fuel bottle is surprisingly not that much larger but would definitely need a lower cage position on my bike. The Bike Buddy MkII allows the movement down the tube. Turning the front wheel a few inches makes accessing that cage position easier. Obvious but I think I recall figuring that out a few months into a trip. Ha!

1 litre
Dimensions: 29cm x 8cm

0.5 Litre
Dimensions: 23.6cm x 6.3cm

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andrew_s
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Location: Gloucestershire

Re: Gas stove or petrol?

Postby andrew_s » 13 Jan 2021, 12:34am

Jdsk wrote:Has the SIGG fuel bottle been discontinued? Any recommended alternatives, and suitable cages, please?

The Sigg bottle is still available (google "sigg traveller"), but they are advertised as water bottles. IIRC, the fuel bottles used to be unlacquered bare aluminium.

I'd recommend an MSR fuel bottle. They were developed as a direct replacement for Sigg bottles, allowing for higher pressures without bulging at the base when pumped for a petrol/paraffin multifuel stove.

Trangia bottles were developed for meths, and whilst they can carry paraffin OK, you shouldn't use one with a multifuel stove & screw-in pump. Looking at the expanded images here, there's a "do not pressurize the bottle" warning on the side, as well as "for alcohol or kerosine".

Brucey
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Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Buying and Carrying Meths/Alcohol for stoves

Postby Brucey » 13 Jan 2021, 8:54am

KTHSullivan wrote:Meths will eat alloy bottles long term. If you have used a MSR or other bottle that is used on a pressure stove to store meths do not use it again on a pressure stove.


this is an excellent point and one I hadn't borne in mind previously. I guess if you are using such a bottle with meths for a few days and subsequently store it dry it is likely to be OK, but it would be easy to accidentally leave it for longer than this, especially if you were not aware of the hazard.

When carrying fuel bottles it is a risk vs consequence game; it is not that they are likely to leak inside a bag, it is more that if they do (and it only takes a tiny piece grit in a seal to provoke a leak and plastic bottles can split of course ) then the result is a lot of quite needless misery. Of the likely liquid stove fuels none of them (with the possible exception of some burning alcohols) are likely to simply evaporate and leave no stains or smells behind. Clothing is bad enough when contaminated with fuel but the prospect of fuel contaminating foodstuffs hardly bears thinking about.

cheers
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