Buying petrol for multifuel stove in UK

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paragonman
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Re: Buying petrol for multifuel stove in UK

Postby paragonman » 7 Mar 2019, 6:44pm

Hi Graham, if you know your old stove was made in 1936 then I assume its a primus 71???

Ivor Tingting
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Re: Buying petrol for multifuel stove in UK

Postby Ivor Tingting » 10 Mar 2019, 9:17pm

LoL at this thread. Just use gas canisters. They are safe and clean and the cylinders are refillable or recyclable. I have used petrol stoves with no issue but where I don't have to use a petrol stove then I would rather not as petrol is highly volatile. Gas canisters are widely available in the UK. As regards liquid fuels in general they are more hazardous than gas. It was my impression that the DoE awards were moving away from recommending liquid fuels in Trangias due to a small number of alarming cases where participants have managed to set fire to themselves e.g. hair of users of stoves has absorbed vapours and youngsters have been leaning over stoves typically meths burners in Trangias and their hair has caught alight, but I might be wrong. I used to deal with kit for out door groups of varying abilities and many providers were moving away from liquid fuels due to hazards of spillage, flammability and storage. Anyway I am sure if you are careful then any fuel will be fine. For me I use gas where I can. Meths and paraffin stink and make feel sick. Meths takes far too long to boil water compared to gas. Petrol also stinks and of course it is highly flammable. Others like white kerosene also present flammability and storage issues. All have noxious production processes so to claim one is better environmentally than the other is fanciful. I shouldn't imagine given ALL the pollution in the world, a few gas canisters is going to cause the ice caps to totally melt and sea levels to rise 6ms. Get a grip.
"Zat is ze reel prowoking qwestion Mr Paxman." - Peer Steinbruck, German Finance Minister 31/03/2009.

Graham O
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Re: Buying petrol for multifuel stove in UK

Postby Graham O » 10 Mar 2019, 10:31pm

paragonman wrote:Hi Graham, if you know your old stove was made in 1936 then I assume its a primus 71???


It's a Monitor stove still in the box with original instructions. You'll probably tell me now that Monitors weren't made until the 50's :)
My dad said that his mum used to cook on it in Malta when they moved out there in '36. It wouldn't be the first time my dad got dates wrong.

paragonman
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Re: Buying petrol for multifuel stove in UK

Postby paragonman » 10 Mar 2019, 10:43pm

A well made British stove, nice to know that you inherited it from your Dad, they're a very reliable and easy to maintain stove.

LollyKat
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Re: Buying petrol for multifuel stove in UK

Postby LollyKat » 11 Mar 2019, 12:31pm

Graham, is yours one of these?
monitor.jpg
1930s catalogue


Though if your mum used it for general cooking it was probably something rather bigger.
monitors.jpg

The first Monitors were made in the 1920s. I grew up with 'primus' stoves and have a very soft spot for them.

Graham O
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Re: Buying petrol for multifuel stove in UK

Postby Graham O » 11 Mar 2019, 12:47pm

So much interest in a camping stove! It is the same model as this one https://classiccampstoves.com/threads/m ... eed.40625/, but the box is "painted" brown inside and out.

On that website, there is a list of things to look for in deciding if a Monitor is pre 50s or post 50s. I will look this evening and if time permits, I may see if it is still working, pump washer permitting. Must also dust off my Optimus 88 and see what state that is in.

PS It was my grandmother who used it in Malta and she took it with her when she was evacuated to Alexandria before the siege began. My dad was a 15 year old dockyard apprentice so he had to stay through the siege.

mattsccm
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Re: Buying petrol for multifuel stove in UK

Postby mattsccm » 14 Mar 2019, 5:18pm

I would bet that in rural areas anywhere that deals in chainsaws sells Aspen. A saw will use the 2T version which has oil but my experience is that dealers also stock the 4 stroke stuff for mowers. 1 litre bottles exist.

Psamathe
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Re: Buying petrol for multifuel stove in UK

Postby Psamathe » 30 Mar 2019, 9:57am

radek wrote:I just came up with another advantage of using liquid fuel. With gas canisters I always struggle to tell how much is left inside......

Last gas canisters I purchased in the UK (2018) had horizontal lines down one side. You float the canister in water (bucket/sink) and the mark it floats closest to tells you how full it is i.e. the marks act as a fuel gauge when canister floated in water. I never tried it as I mostly carried a spare and shaking the one in use or comparing to the full one gave a reasonable estimate (though they often went on longer than I expected).

Ian

Brucey
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Re: Buying petrol for multifuel stove in UK

Postby Brucey » 30 Mar 2019, 8:32pm

radek wrote:... Same as you, I am not too concerned about using petrol. What about people who live next to a busy road, they do not have a choice... I will just make sure that the wind takes fumes away from us and that food is covered. This way the exposure will be near zero.
.


The fumes from the liquid fuel are poisonous, and the fumes from burning the fuel are also poisonous (esp when the combustion temperature is not as high as it could be). However sensible positioning of the stove and covering the pots etc will minimise exposure to such fumes. One thing I am not at all keen on is making toast over a petrol stove; I think it won't do you any good even if it seems to taste OK. If you must have toast, a gas stove is probably best for this.

My oldest stove is an Optimus No96 (?) model. It looks a bit like this

Image

and comes in a 'vertical' tin, but the flame spreader is different and the tin is blue, not red. It also has a 'parking spot' for the centre cap, so you don't lose it whilst using the stove. The priming bottle contains sufficient meths to light the stove about a dozen or two dozen times only, so I have many times run out of priming fuel and have used a tissue (or dried leaves) soaked in paraffin instead; a bit smokey but works OK.

FWIW it seems to me that the danger with trangias using the standard meths burner is that you run out of fuel half-way through cooking. The safe way of dealing with this is to cap the burner (to make absolutely sure that the flame is extinguished) and to wait until the burner is cool enough to touch. It is then safe to refill it with meths, and resume cooking. [It seems to me that if you are make tea to drink and then cook a substantial 'two pot' meal for two, running out of fuel part way through the third billy is an occupational hazard with a Trangia.] I think the accidents happen when

a) the burner is still hot when refilled, which instantly generates a lot of flammable vapour and/or
b) worse yet there is still a tiny flame inside the burner when it is being refilled, which has obvious consequences.

I also have a two-burner Coleman petrol stove which isn't entirely suitable for bike camping but is capable of cooking food for about half a dozen people. If you do tea, porridge and a fry-up in the morning, more tea and a 'two pot' meal in the evening, for six or seven people, you can easily get through a pint of fuel every day.

It is possible to have an accident with any stove but some are definitely worse than others. In particular the consequences of knocking a traditional Primus stove over anywhere near a tent don't bear thinking about.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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Gattonero
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Re: Buying petrol for multifuel stove in UK

Postby Gattonero » 6 Apr 2019, 9:59am

Brucey wrote:... it seems to me that the danger with trangias using the standard meths burner is that you run out of fuel half-way through cooking. The safe way of dealing with this is to cap the burner (to make absolutely sure that the flame is extinguished) and to wait until the burner is cool enough to touch. It is then safe to refill it with meths, and resume cooking. [It seems to me that if you are make tea to drink and then cook a substantial 'two pot' meal for two, running out of fuel part way through the third billy is an occupational hazard with a Trangia.] I think the accidents happen when

a) the burner is still hot when refilled, which instantly generates a lot of flammable vapour and/or
b) worse yet there is still a tiny flame inside the burner when it is being refilled, which has obvious consequences.
...


When completely filled (say 2/3 from the top of the well) a Trangia burner will easily burn to cook some pasta and make tea as well.
Because the cap is leak-proof, provided one has not been so foolish to use the cap to extinguish the flame, the burner can always be kept full so there's no need to top-up while cooking.
If one needs even more cooking time, I'd assume is not the type of user that will opt for the simplicity of a meths burner and the relative frugal meals you will cook with it. Though I have easily cooked pasta, plus scrambled eggs with veg sausages and cheese, all from the same burner filling, I won't go that far cooking a curry or other complicated dish with it. Aside from the inconvenience of simmering, which can be done but is nowhere near as convenient as it's on a gas burner, to make such type of dishes does involve a certain amount of facilities and sundries that are not contemplated by that tourer that keeps an almost minimalist approach. And no, I am not talking of "boil some water and rehydrate a pre-cooked meal" :(

On average, to boil two cups of water will take about 10 minutes in the field, when using the Trangia burner & stand/windshield. If happens that needs to wait the burner to cool down, this takes about one minute or so, which is not a big deal at all.
After all, one goes outdoors to pull the chord from a life that is often too busy and in a rush, so take your time. And make tea first :)
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since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...

Thehairs1970
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Re: Buying petrol for multifuel stove in UK

Postby Thehairs1970 » 6 Apr 2019, 7:19pm

[quote]Because the cap is leak-proof, provided one has not been so foolish to use the cap to extinguish the flame, the burner can always be kept full so there's no need to top-up while cooking.]/quote]

Don't leave meths in once you have finished your trip. It 'rots' the seal.

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RickH
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Re: Buying petrol for multifuel stove in UK

Postby RickH » 7 Apr 2019, 1:17am

Thehairs1970 wrote:
Because the cap is leak-proof, provided one has not been so foolish to use the cap to extinguish the flame, the burner can always be kept full so there's no need to top-up while cooking.]/quote]

Don't leave meths in once you have finished your trip. It 'rots' the seal.

In the years I've had a Trangia I doubt the burner has been stored empty more than a couple of times & haven't found this to be the case.

I got it out to take camping last weekend & yes the burner was full when I checked it. For various reasons I didn't camp at all last year so, unless I used it just for the sake of it (I don't remember doing so), it had been like that since some time in 2017 (probably July).

Thehairs1970
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Re: Buying petrol for multifuel stove in UK

Postby Thehairs1970 » 7 Apr 2019, 8:36am

My seal went all hard and brittle (sounds nasty but not a medical complaint).

I also lost a Sigg bottle after it corroded with meths in it for a long time.

Any scientists able to explain?

rualexander
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Re: Buying petrol for multifuel stove in UK

Postby rualexander » 7 Apr 2019, 8:55am

RickH wrote:In the years I've had a Trangia I doubt the burner has been stored empty more than a couple of times & haven't found this to be the case.


Same here.

Thehairs1970 wrote:
I also lost a Sigg bottle after it corroded with meths in it for a long time.

Any scientists able to explain?


Meths corrodes bare aluminium.

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Gattonero
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Re: Buying petrol for multifuel stove in UK

Postby Gattonero » 8 Apr 2019, 12:15am

Thehairs1970 wrote:
Because the cap is leak-proof, provided one has not been so foolish to use the cap to extinguish the flame, the burner can always be kept full so there's no need to top-up while cooking.]/quote]

Don't leave meths in once you have finished your trip. It 'rots' the seal.


Nah, my Trangia burner has had Meths inside for over 2 years now. Not a problem at all.
And if there was this problem to come, the seal is easy and cheap to replace. But nope, the seal is still good despite the burner been fairly tarnished by now.
It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best,
since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...