Camping spares

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foxyrider
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Re: Camping spares

Postby foxyrider » 7 Apr 2019, 7:40pm

Sweep wrote:
horizon wrote:
robing wrote:Yes that's the one. The drawstring as you can see is on the side rather than the end so it opens up sideways.
Don't like it.


The tent is squeezed neatly and tightly into the old style bag at the factory. All neat and nice - until you come to pack it away yourself and you cannot get the sausage back into its skin. The side opening tent bag isn't as neat but it's much more practical IMV. I wish they did the same for sleeping bags!

Afraid I have to disagree with you horizon - I have a few vango product that come in those "easy access bags" - I think they are a cop out - easier and cheaper to make I suspect - fine for car campers but for lashing to the top of a bike rack I want something that I can be confident will remain totally enclosing the tent - I don't want bungees rubbing against any part of the tent.

OP, I would I think invest in an ortlieb dry bag in the midweight 350 material. If you have more than one tent (but will of course only be using one at a time) one ortlieb dry bag will do for several. If you keep the outer and inner separate, two 13L ones might sort you. Folk have been rolling up tents and getting them into bags for a long time - it's good for the soul :)

You could trawl through these folk for something:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/m.html?_odkw ... acat=16034

though wouldn't be as tough as an ortlieb 350.


Of course if car camping you can do what I've done a few times of a morn in a wet welsh campsite - just throw the whole unpacked tent in the back of a hatchback and drive off :)


Rolling up tents? golly gosh, not done that for decades as it can cause early failure of the materials.

Have to agree with the dry bag thing, my tents have suitable dry bags and get rammed in quickly and easily with no mucking about trying to fold/roll the tent first. FWIW I do the same with my sleeping bags.
Convention? what's that then?
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Sweep
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Re: Camping spares

Postby Sweep » 7 Apr 2019, 7:44pm

foxyrider wrote:
Rolling up tents? golly gosh, not done that for decades as it can cause early failure of the materials.

Have to agree with the dry bag thing, my tents have suitable dry bags and get rammed in quickly and easily with no mucking about trying to fold/roll the tent first. FWIW I do the same with my sleeping bags.

Not arguing foxy, genuine question, can you elaborate on the problems with rolling?
Sweep

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pjclinch
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Re: Camping spares

Postby pjclinch » 7 Apr 2019, 9:04pm

andrew_s wrote:
Gattonero wrote:Drysacks are very easy to make with a sewing machine and some 4oz PU-coated ripstop nylon

What do you do about sealing the seams?
After all, a drysack that leaks is no better than a stuff sack.


That was my first reaction, and it was immediately followed in to my head with, "so what would you seal a tent seam with?"

Seam sealer seems like the obvious answer!
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pjclinch
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Re: Camping spares

Postby pjclinch » 7 Apr 2019, 9:16pm

Sweep wrote:
foxyrider wrote:
Rolling up tents? golly gosh, not done that for decades as it can cause early failure of the materials.

Not arguing foxy, genuine question, can you elaborate on the problems with rolling?


My Spacepacker is only just past its 21st birthday so clearly a youngster, but it's clearly failed to have anything go wrong with it in that despite me always rolling it up for storage once I've dried it. The Hilles are comparative spring chickens at ca. 18 and 12 years, but they're still muddling along somehow despite spending most of their time rolled up.

There is an argument that if you fold something repeatedly along one line that might weaken it, but it really seems to be a non-issue. Hilleberg have gone to quite some trouble over the years with product testing and tips and hints for trouble free use based on 40 years of doing nothing but working with tents, and their pitching (and striking) videos seem to be quite relaxed about this. For example:



(he starts packing it away at about 7:30, btw)

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Thehairs1970
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Re: Camping spares

Postby Thehairs1970 » 7 Apr 2019, 10:36pm

[Rolling up tents? golly gosh, not done that for decades as it can cause early failure of the materials.


How do you do it then? Fold or stuff? I can't see how this would be better.

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Gattonero
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Re: Camping spares

Postby Gattonero » 8 Apr 2019, 12:12am

andrew_s wrote:
Gattonero wrote:Drysacks are very easy to make with a sewing machine and some 4oz PU-coated ripstop nylon

What do you do about sealing the seams?
After all, a drysack that leaks is no better than a stuff sack.


Mix 2:1 transparent caulcking silicone with odourless mineral spirit, for silicone-coated fabrics.
For PU-coated you can use the seam-tape to fix with the warm iron, or the appropriate McNett seam sealer.
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pjclinch
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Re: Camping spares

Postby pjclinch » 8 Apr 2019, 8:26am

Thehairs1970 wrote:
[Rolling up tents? golly gosh, not done that for decades as it can cause early failure of the materials.


How do you do it then? Fold or stuff? I can't see how this would be better.


Stuffing avoids the (IME largely theoretical) issue of repeated folds along the same lines, and perhaps more to the point is often quicker. On the plus side for folding is you can keep mud etc. from the groundsheet off the inner walls by folding the groundsheet either to itself or as the outer layer.

If you have a dry tent ready for longer-term packing, particularly an all-in-one pitch, a neat roll means if it's chucking it down when you pitch then only the groundsheet gets muddy. If it's blowing a hoolie it's easier to lay out with a weight on it and find some strategic pegging points early on. You also slightly lower the chance of guys (even neatly hanked ones) tangling themselves with one another.

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andrew_s
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Re: Camping spares

Postby andrew_s » 8 Apr 2019, 7:41pm

The problem with rolling a tent that I've had was with a Quasar, which had been rolled so that the PU coating was coating to coating, and left festering in the spare room for something like 15 years.

When I eventually came to use it, the coating was stuck to itself. It did pull apart, but it took a good 20 mins, and re-stuck just as solidly after being re-rolled for a day.

Google led me to believe that the problem was the plasticisers in the PU coating diffusing out to the surface, and not being able to evaporate away where there was another coated surface there.

drossall
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Re: Camping spares

Postby drossall » 8 Apr 2019, 10:03pm

I've always rolled mine, and prefer to do it that way. Never had any issues (not related to folding anyway!) I think I can get a smaller bundle by folding, as it's easier to expel air, and that does matter.

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Re: Camping spares

Postby pjclinch » 9 Apr 2019, 7:48am

andrew_s wrote:The problem with rolling a tent that I've had was with a Quasar, which had been rolled so that the PU coating was coating to coating, and left festering in the spare room for something like 15 years.

When I eventually came to use it, the coating was stuck to itself. It did pull apart, but it took a good 20 mins, and re-stuck just as solidly after being re-rolled for a day.

Google led me to believe that the problem was the plasticisers in the PU coating diffusing out to the surface, and not being able to evaporate away where there was another coated surface there.


That's rather sad, but with the fly and groundsheet typically coated both sides I suspect you'd have a bit of a game arranging things so that you didn't have PU to PU, at least without contrived extra sheeting :(

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Tangled Metal
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Re: Camping spares

Postby Tangled Metal » 9 Apr 2019, 8:25am

Rolling vs stuffing? Doesn't matter I reckon.

And what is this hanking of guylines? I'm! 40s and grew up camping. We've never hanked any lines. The time taken to hank is longer than it takes to untangle IME. I did see a video from BPL-UK website where he hanked tarp guys. I did it once and got the line tangled in the hank. I followed his technique exactly too (actually I have seen Ray Mears hank line in a similar way too).

Tents are simple things to use but we all have our different ways with them. From stuff sacks with slit open sides to hanked lines. It's personal preference.

Drysacks are available everywhere these days. I've seen some in a large supermarket once. Look around for the bag closest to the one you're replacing in size. Or change your ways?

Smaller dry bags for fly and inner with a peg bag and poles either loose or in another bag. Wet and muddy pegs are separate and secure. Fly doesn't wet out the inner. And you can pack them better according to where it's best to put them. My poles went in a frame bag, my pegs too. Easy to get hold of. The fly and inner went on top of the rack. All the first things to get to when stopping.

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pjclinch
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Re: Camping spares

Postby pjclinch » 9 Apr 2019, 8:57am

Tangled Metal wrote:
And what is this hanking of guylines? I'm! 40s and grew up camping. We've never hanked any lines. The time taken to hank is longer than it takes to untangle IME. I did see a video from BPL-UK website where he hanked tarp guys. I did it once and got the line tangled in the hank. I followed his technique exactly too (actually I have seen Ray Mears hank line in a similar way too).


Drummed in to me in the Scouts, it had to be done if you were in 3rd Bexley!

And I've seen a much better class of unpacking snarl when it hasn't been done than when it has. I don't bother if it's miserable and the last pack of a trip, but otherwise I do. If pitching and it's nasty I want the very best chance of a straightforward pitch (I also make sure the line runners and pegging tensioners are set to maximum length before the final pre-storage pack). More and longer guys make for potentially more problems. On the other hand they also make for a more stable tent when the going gets tough.

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Tangled Metal
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Re: Camping spares

Postby Tangled Metal » 9 Apr 2019, 9:23am

Never had that snarled up line problem even with tents that had a lot of guylines. I must be lucky I guess. I just fold and roll then stuff and tuck any lines hanging out.

Our cubs and scouts never had any strict discipline so the few times we camped it was left to us to sort the tents out. Tbh some of us had done more camping out than the leaders anyway. When they got involved they sometimes made it worse anyway. Plus I used to explain how to do knots better than any of them. The leader taught it and I explained it so they could actually tie the knots. I don't think it was a good scout and cubs troop really.

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andrew_s
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Re: Camping spares

Postby andrew_s » 9 Apr 2019, 1:40pm

pjclinch wrote:That's rather sad, but with the fly and groundsheet typically coated both sides I suspect you'd have a bit of a game arranging things so that you didn't have PU to PU, at least without contrived extra sheeting

My PU-coated tents have only been visibly coated on one side (inside of outer, top of groundsheet), with plain nylon weave on the other, but even so, avoiding PU-to-PU on the outer of an inner-first or outer-first pitch tent isn't really practical, On the groundsheet and on an all-in-one pitch you'd normally have inner between layers of outer.
I've just made a mental note to stuff any other PU-coated tent loose in a box for long term storage, but my current tents are all silnylon so it doesn't really apply. Even if I did get another PU-coated tent, I'd roll it for regular use, on the grounds of ease of pitching in the wind.


On the subject of drybags, I've been mildly irritated by the current paucity of plain simple stuff sacks on the market, which I like to use for compartmentalising my gear, or things like holding my waterproofs in so the water repellency doesn't just wear off on the saddlebag.
Drybags are all very well, but it's a bit of a pain getting the air out to reduce the volume they use, and if you don't roll the top things fall out.

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Sweep
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Re: Camping spares

Postby Sweep » 9 Apr 2019, 6:37pm

andrew_s wrote:
On the subject of drybags, I've been mildly irritated by the current paucity of plain simple stuff sacks on the market, which I like to use for compartmentalising my gear, or things like holding my waterproofs in so the water repellency doesn't just wear off on the saddlebag. .


check out ebay eastern sellers - no shortage of them.

If you prefer to buy from the UK may be worth checking out lomo watersports online
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