What tent material

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climo
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What tent material

Postby climo » 26 May 2019, 10:45pm

After a disappointing experience with a sil/nylon tent stretching when wet to the point that the guys were useless I'm looking at other tents and importantly the fabric. Want one that doesn't go limp (oo, matron)
Robens tents seem good and the Hydrotex HD fabric being 100% polyester doesn't stretch if I read it correct. Does anyone know this for sure?
Vaude tents equally good but heres where I'm confused. Sunday night senior moment!
Chapel L XT 3P . A big tent
https://www.vaude.com/en-GB/Products/Ac ... =128234510
Says its 100% polyester (therefore low stretch) as in
Flysheet: 100% Polyester; 30 D Ripstop Silicone / Polyurethane coated 3.000 mm; Inner tent: 100% Polyester; 30 D Ripstop; Floor: 100% Polyamide; 70 D Polyurethane coated 7.000 mm.
but goes on to say
Longer lifespan - 3-ply silicone coating outside for excellent UV reflection.Superior water beading properties - water simply beads up.
Re-tensioning - the nylon fabric stretches somewhat when wet. The tent should be re-tensioned if it begins to rain or snow.

so what is the Vaude fabric? Floppy when wet sil/nylon or no change when wet polyester?

Stop sniggering in the back.

Psamathe
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Re: What tent material

Postby Psamathe » 27 May 2019, 4:30pm

I'm also looking for a new tent for exactly the same reasons. (Last year I was lucky with the weather but still the sagging outer wet overnight ended-up soaking the inner (mostly when I arrived it was hot enough that it all dried out within an hour or so - but can't rely on that).

I was thinking of trying to get round the problem through a better design of poles. My tent was a tunnel design (two parallel hoops across the tent which means a lot of material to sag between far ends (pegs at feet to pegs at vestibule) (https://nordisk.co.uk/halland-2-pu/dusty-green/p/83?ccode=true). So I'd been hoping that something like the Naik 2 (too expensive) or MSR with the diagonal crossing poles might mean less unsupported material so the sag would be less likely to cause problems. But I'm not any sort of expert so am very interested in the responses others will give.

Ian

HobbesOnTour
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Re: What tent material

Postby HobbesOnTour » 27 May 2019, 8:58pm

Am I having my own senior moment or would a loop of shockcord attached to the end of the guyline which is then pegged out minimise the effect of the sagging material? On the assumption that the line is attached to the area that sags as opposed to the pole.

Psamathe
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Re: What tent material

Postby Psamathe » 27 May 2019, 9:14pm

HobbesOnTour wrote:Am I having my own senior moment or would a loop of shockcord attached to the end of the guyline which is then pegged out minimise the effect of the sagging material? On the assumption that the line is attached to the area that sags as opposed to the pole.

That is what I've been considering but I'm unsure it would take-up enough of the sag - some mornings you end-up with a puddle sitting in the middle of the tent fly (after having set it bar tight on going to bed).

My personal concern is I hope to be off in a few days (hope!) and once away if it does not work it could be a nightmare without the same dry hot weather I had last year.

Ian

HobbesOnTour
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Re: What tent material

Postby HobbesOnTour » 27 May 2019, 9:25pm

Psamathe wrote:That is what I've been considering but I'm unsure it would take-up enough of the sag - some mornings you end-up with a puddle sitting in the middle of the tent fly (after having set it bar tight on going to bed).

My personal concern is I hope to be off in a few days (hope!) and once away if it does not work it could be a nightmare without the same dry hot weather I had last year.

Ian

Is that on the roof or on the fly at the front?
Is the puddle from rain or dew?

climo
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Re: What tent material

Postby climo » 27 May 2019, 9:25pm

Here's what Vaude said when questioned about the Chapel tent fabric

"thanks for your email and your interest in VAUDE tents.
Our technician just told me that all models made of Polyester don't stretch."

Not exactly a clear answer.
My take is that this material does stretch. The warning of re-tensioning the tent after rain doesn't appear on the pages that show cheaper Vaude tents with a fly fabric of 75D density but does appear on pages that show more expensive and lighter Vaude tents with a fly fabric of 30D density. Both fabrics claim to "100% polyester".

Psamathe
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Re: What tent material

Postby Psamathe » 27 May 2019, 9:45pm

HobbesOnTour wrote:
Psamathe wrote:That is what I've been considering but I'm unsure it would take-up enough of the sag - some mornings you end-up with a puddle sitting in the middle of the tent fly (after having set it bar tight on going to bed).

My personal concern is I hope to be off in a few days (hope!) and once away if it does not work it could be a nightmare without the same dry hot weather I had last year.

Ian

Is that on the roof or on the fly at the front?
Is the puddle from rain or dew?

On the roof. As it collects through the night difficult to know if it's only dew or if there might have been light rain overnight. Certainly not heavy rain as I'd likely have noticed that. Tends to get creases running between the two pole hoops and puddle starts forming between them as as puddle forms so it makes a better depression of puddle .... There was not a puddle in the fly every night but most days the inner would be quite wet from where it had been touching the sagging fly (material expanded) and then pack-up and on re-pitching the water on the inner would be inside so I'd towel it out (the puddles) and leave the vestibule open and in the heat within the hour it would be dry (but without the heat I'd be sleeping in the wet, sleeping bag getting wet .....).

I've probably not explained it very well so hope the description makes some sense.

Ian

HobbesOnTour
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Re: What tent material

Postby HobbesOnTour » 27 May 2019, 9:54pm

Psamathe wrote:On the roof. As it collects through the night difficult to know if it's only dew or if there might have been light rain overnight. Certainly not heavy rain as I'd likely have noticed that. Tends to get creases running between the two pole hoops and puddle starts forming between them as as puddle forms so it makes a better depression of puddle .... There was not a puddle in the fly every night but most days the inner would be quite wet from where it had been touching the sagging fly (material expanded) and then pack-up and on re-pitching the water on the inner would be inside so I'd towel it out (the puddles) and leave the vestibule open and in the heat within the hour it would be dry (but without the heat I'd be sleeping in the wet, sleeping bag getting wet .....).

I've probably not explained it very well so hope the description makes some sense.

Ian

It could be the material sagging or it could be the hoops moving closer to each other?
The only thing I can suggest is to peg out the hoops in opposite directions to each other. In the photo in your link both the hoops are pegged out to the rear. Maybe attach an extra guy or 2 as well if you can.

In any case, having to dry out your tent on tour is still a whole lot more fun than posting about it on a forum! :)

Bon voyage!

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pjclinch
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Re: What tent material

Postby pjclinch » 28 May 2019, 4:59pm

climo wrote:After a disappointing experience with a sil/nylon tent stretching when wet to the point that the guys were useless I'm looking at other tents and importantly the fabric. Want one that doesn't go limp (oo, matron)


A generalist comment, but over the years of using all sorts of outdoor kit I've found the devil tends to be in the design detail and that sweeping "nylon tents in the rain will be awful" sorts of generalisations don't always hold.

I've used silnylon tents for about 30 years now (Saunders and Hilleberg) and they've all got very, very wet but I've never had an issue beyond periodic minor guy tensioning (and you usually have to do that if it's windy in any case, just from the mechanical pushes and pulls on the pegs, and while on the subject of wind that would be why I'd not be inclined to use shock-cord guys).

So while I'd seek confirmation that a Brand X Model Y isn't awfully saggy in the rain, I'd be more interested in the stuff like how is the space laid out and is it easy enough to pitch before I'd rule out silicone coated nylon.

Pete.
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mercalia
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Re: What tent material

Postby mercalia » 30 May 2019, 9:25am

ah stretching. My simple one skin SI proofed tent/tarp did that 2 years ago at the York festival when it rained ( afterwards). strectched very much I could get another person in there :lol: I think the tent that have a waterproof plastic pvc? backing wont stretch due to the plastic backing? not the material as such. Such as my Vaude Mk2. On the other hand there is the sun issue, I try not to use that tent exposed to full sunlight, use it in the shade under trees. The only tent I have that can take any thing is my ancient Conquest polycotton "canvas" tent that puts modern tents to shame from the material point of view, trouble is it weighs a ton :cry:

climo
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Re: What tent material

Postby climo » 31 May 2019, 11:22pm

mercalia wrote:ah stretching. My simple one skin SI proofed tent/tarp did that 2 years ago at the York festival when it rained ( afterwards). strectched very much I could get another person in there :lol: I think the tent that have a waterproof plastic pvc? backing wont stretch due to the plastic backing? not the material as such. Such as my Vaude Mk2. On the other hand there is the sun issue, I try not to use that tent exposed to full sunlight, use it in the shade under trees. The only tent I have that can take any thing is my ancient Conquest polycotton "canvas" tent that puts modern tents to shame from the material point of view, trouble is it weighs a ton :cry:

Just to be sure, are you saying that your Vaude Mk2 doesn't stretch? Is it silnylon? Doesn't sound like it is

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pjclinch
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Re: What tent material

Postby pjclinch » 1 Jun 2019, 7:38am

climo wrote:Just to be sure, are you saying that your Vaude Mk2 doesn't stretch? Is it silnylon? Doesn't sound like it is


I think there's more to it than "is it silnylon?". Nylon (polyamide) is the underlying fibre, silicone is the basis of the coating, you can vary both fabric and coating enormously within those parameters. And some will get wetter than others (because the coating isn't so good), and if they do the thinner and/or less tightly woven ones will probably stretch more.

All silnylons are not equal.

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Gattonero
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Re: What tent material

Postby Gattonero » 1 Jun 2019, 10:32am

Completely agree with the above, not all the fabrics are equal, both for composition and coating. The former, can have very different values of stretch in warp or weft, let alone the cross-stretch!

I also agree with the design of the tent and position of the poles, good manufacturers will take the above parameters into account, and as result their tents do stretch very little. And some have simple ways that would allow a possible re-tension without going out of the tent.
Of course, there may be fabrics that will have some "initial" stretch, and that are worth checking after one hour been pitched even if it's dry.
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mercalia
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Re: What tent material

Postby mercalia » 1 Jun 2019, 12:18pm

climo wrote:
mercalia wrote:ah stretching. My simple one skin SI proofed tent/tarp did that 2 years ago at the York festival when it rained ( afterwards). strectched very much I could get another person in there :lol: I think the tent that have a waterproof plastic pvc? backing wont stretch due to the plastic backing? not the material as such. Such as my Vaude Mk2. On the other hand there is the sun issue, I try not to use that tent exposed to full sunlight, use it in the shade under trees. The only tent I have that can take any thing is my ancient Conquest polycotton "canvas" tent that puts modern tents to shame from the material point of view, trouble is it weighs a ton :cry:

Just to be sure, are you saying that your Vaude Mk2 doesn't stretch? Is it silnylon? Doesn't sound like it is


no it isnt I was originally referring to a single skin tarp tent that only has silicon proofing ( good enough as a simple shelter ) that I bought just for that purpose, The Vaude Mk2 isnt silnylon and it doesnt stretch when wet. On the other hand these tents with water proof backing have another problem, the cracking of the plastic coating on the back; so far mine is ok being now 10+ years old

climo
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Re: What tent material

Postby climo » 1 Jun 2019, 7:48pm

pjclinch wrote:
climo wrote:After a disappointing experience with a sil/nylon tent stretching when wet to the point that the guys were useless I'm looking at other tents and importantly the fabric. Want one that doesn't go limp (oo, matron)


A generalist comment, but over the years of using all sorts of outdoor kit I've found the devil tends to be in the design detail and that sweeping "nylon tents in the rain will be awful" sorts of generalisations don't always hold.

I've used silnylon tents for about 30 years now (Saunders and Hilleberg) and they've all got very, very wet but I've never had an issue beyond periodic minor guy tensioning (and you usually have to do that if it's windy in any case, just from the mechanical pushes and pulls on the pegs, and while on the subject of wind that would be why I'd not be inclined to use shock-cord guys).

So while I'd seek confirmation that a Brand X Model Y isn't awfully saggy in the rain, I'd be more interested in the stuff like how is the space laid out and is it easy enough to pitch before I'd rule out silicone coated nylon.

Pete.

Yes, of course the design is paramount but it's no good having a great design if the fabric is not up to it. Even my Hilleberg stretches but smaller than the Vaude above so is less of a problem. In terms of the same design of tent in nylon & polyester watch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7K4jKKLu3aw

I have doubts over the pole design of the Vaude but overall (size, weight, height) is pretty good. There's a vid online of it deforming in a 95km wind, surprisingly the Robens family tent did way better at 120km. The Hilleberg Nallo 3GT stood 145km wind until buckling to the point that it would be resting on your face BUT it sprang right back up when the wind machine stopped. Pretty impressive. A completely artificial test but interesting non the less.