Cooking on small gas camp stoves

Specifically for cycle touring subjects & questions
User avatar
pjclinch
Posts: 3787
Joined: 29 Oct 2007, 2:32pm
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Contact:

Re: Cooking on small gas camp stoves

Postby pjclinch » 18 Jun 2019, 9:01pm

horizon wrote:I had always assumed that the Trangia with its somewhat pathetic wafty blue flame was a slow burner. My plan was to use it in conjunction with a camping gaz burner when I needed a quick brew. I've got the camping gaz now (£5 so a bargain) and I will still run them together but I do now know that Trangias are in fact fast and powerful, especially in windy conditions.


Use them for snow melting and you'll find they are very much not the Weapon Of Choice if you want seriously "fast and powerful". That is moot for most cycle camping, most of the time, but if you have a major heating job to do then anyone buying them for their speed and oomph will have got it worng, I'd say.

Where they are effectively fast is where you can use their ability to chug along by themselves to do something else. You can get a brew on before you pitch the tent, and it'll be nicely along the way by the time you're done without worrying about it blowing out, falling over etc.

Pete.
Often seen riding a bike around Dundee...

User avatar
Sweep
Posts: 5774
Joined: 20 Oct 2011, 4:57pm
Location: London

Re: Cooking on small gas camp stoves

Postby Sweep » 18 Jun 2019, 10:17pm

pjclinch wrote:
horizon wrote:
Where they are effectively fast is where you can use their ability to chug along by themselves to do something else. You can get a brew on before you pitch the tent, and it'll be nicely along the way by the time you're done without worrying about it blowing out, falling over etc.

Pete.

excellent point.
Sweep

nsew
Posts: 219
Joined: 14 Dec 2017, 12:38pm

Re: Cooking on small gas camp stoves

Postby nsew » 18 Jun 2019, 10:28pm

For the touring / expedition cyclist the Trangia is effective not only because it won’t fail them but also because the fuel can be purchased cheaply with ease practically everywhere in the world. Combine with a solo wood burning stove and you’re all set. I keep 3 of the small Bic lighters spread out in my kit. When one expires I buy another. Fired a brew up here at about 2200m on the Galibier 3 weeks ago and left it on simmer (in a windshield) to warm my hands up at intervals. I don’t pee around with the other systems.
Image Attachments
1A11727E-5CFC-45E7-A00E-2F6442DD6FEB.jpeg

User avatar
horizon
Posts: 9672
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 11:24am
Location: Cornwall

Re: Cooking on small gas camp stoves

Postby horizon » 19 Jun 2019, 12:31am

pjclinch wrote:
Where they are effectively fast is where you can use their ability to chug along by themselves to do something else. You can get a brew on before you pitch the tent, and it'll be nicely along the way by the time you're done without worrying about it blowing out, falling over etc.

Pete.


This is exactly what I had planned but I actually found it pretty quick - maybe because I had always assumed it was very, very slow. Maybe I'm just getting slower at putting the tent up. :shock:
Let's just get Brexit done so that we can get on with the important job of re-joining the EU!

Brucey
Posts: 35936
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Cooking on small gas camp stoves

Postby Brucey » 19 Jun 2019, 1:43am

IME the speed of a Trangia varies with the temperature of the burner as well as the fuel quality as previously discussed. The burner is heated by the proximity of the flame and cooled by both the vaporisation of the fuel and any heat lost through the outside of the burner. So if the burner sees a cool breeze or is sat in a puddle of (cold) water then it'll go fairly slowly. By contrast if the burner is allowed to heat up enough it can practically 'run away' with itself. I think this often happens just before the fuel is exhausted.

My suspicion is that in very cold conditions, it may be beneficial to insulate the burner a little, so that it runs a bit hotter, but I've never really tried it.

One of my other mad ideas is that if you don't mind a bit of soot and you want to eke your fuel out, it may be possible to add scraps of wood to a meths burner, eg by adding a stainless steel mesh 'grate' at the right place. Again not something I have dabbled with much, but could have the advantage that the wood possibly needn't be 100% dry in order to burn and have some benefit.

cheers
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

User avatar
pjclinch
Posts: 3787
Joined: 29 Oct 2007, 2:32pm
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Contact:

Re: Cooking on small gas camp stoves

Postby pjclinch » 19 Jun 2019, 8:40am

horizon wrote:This is exactly what I had planned but I actually found it pretty quick - maybe because I had always assumed it was very, very slow. Maybe I'm just getting slower at putting the tent up. :shock:


Well, if you had a Hilleberg... :wink:
Often seen riding a bike around Dundee...

User avatar
horizon
Posts: 9672
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 11:24am
Location: Cornwall

Re: Cooking on small gas camp stoves

Postby horizon » 19 Jun 2019, 11:07am

Brucey wrote:
One of my other mad ideas is that if you don't mind a bit of soot and you want to eke your fuel out, it may be possible to add scraps of wood to a meths burner,

cheers



Oh, don't worry Brucey, I've tried that - it's the pile of burnt matches that I used to try to light the blinking thing until I discovered fuel lighters (please see long parallel thread about lighting a Trangia :lol: ).
Let's just get Brexit done so that we can get on with the important job of re-joining the EU!

nsew
Posts: 219
Joined: 14 Dec 2017, 12:38pm

Re: Cooking on small gas camp stoves

Postby nsew » 19 Jun 2019, 4:05pm

I like the sitting of the burner in water to moderate the heat. I’m going to give that a go.

Brucey wrote:IME the speed of a Trangia varies with the temperature of the burner as well as the fuel quality as previously discussed. The burner is heated by the proximity of the flame and cooled by both the vaporisation of the fuel and any heat lost through the outside of the burner. So if the burner sees a cool breeze or is sat in a puddle of (cold) water then it'll go fairly slowly. By contrast if the burner is allowed to heat up enough it can practically 'run away' with itself. I think this often happens just before the fuel is exhausted.

My suspicion is that in very cold conditions, it may be beneficial to insulate the burner a little, so that it runs a bit hotter, but I've never really tried it.

One of my other mad ideas is that if you don't mind a bit of soot and you want to eke your fuel out, it may be possible to add scraps of wood to a meths burner, eg by adding a stainless steel mesh 'grate' at the right place. Again not something I have dabbled with much, but could have the advantage that the wood possibly needn't be 100% dry in order to burn and have some benefit.

cheers

User avatar
andrew_s
Posts: 4963
Joined: 7 Jan 2007, 9:29pm
Location: Gloucestershire

Re: Cooking on small gas camp stoves

Postby andrew_s » 19 Jun 2019, 6:17pm

Brucey wrote:By contrast if the burner is allowed to heat up enough it can practically 'run away' with itself.

It has been known for a Trangia to melt itself (or at least the wind shield). :shock:

It happened on a warm windy day, when the stove was positioned with the perforations in the base pointed away from the wind (contrary to the instructions, which probably hadn't been read, or at least not remembered).
Instead of the normal updraft in the holes and around the side of the pan, there was a downdraft in round the edge of the pan and out through the holes in the base, which not only caused the burner to heat up, but burnt away the bits of aluminium base between the perforations.

nsew
Posts: 219
Joined: 14 Dec 2017, 12:38pm

Re: Cooking on small gas camp stoves

Postby nsew » 19 Jun 2019, 7:39pm

Perforations in the base pointed away from the wind? I don’t understand what you’re saying there. Wrapping a windshield too close around the burner will have it ‘running away with itself’, I’ve found. Leaving a gap in the simmer lid when extinguishing the flame can present issues. It’s good practice to have a water bottle at hand with open flames.

andrew_s wrote:
Brucey wrote:By contrast if the burner is allowed to heat up enough it can practically 'run away' with itself.

It has been known for a Trangia to melt itself (or at least the wind shield). :shock:

It happened on a warm windy day, when the stove was positioned with the perforations in the base pointed away from the wind (contrary to the instructions, which probably hadn't been read, or at least not remembered).
Instead of the normal updraft in the holes and around the side of the pan, there was a downdraft in round the edge of the pan and out through the holes in the base, which not only caused the burner to heat up, but burnt away the bits of aluminium base between the perforations.

nsew
Posts: 219
Joined: 14 Dec 2017, 12:38pm

Re: Cooking on small gas camp stoves

Postby nsew » 20 Jun 2019, 11:08pm

I get it, you’re banging on about a windshield. I have an image of you positioning it on all fours at the common. Not good.

nsew
Posts: 219
Joined: 14 Dec 2017, 12:38pm

Re: Cooking on small gas camp stoves

Postby nsew » 21 Jun 2019, 8:05am

The Trangia’s final flame this morning
Image Attachments
D85334CD-7E97-4785-8A25-4F3913A9807F.jpeg

User avatar
andrew_s
Posts: 4963
Joined: 7 Jan 2007, 9:29pm
Location: Gloucestershire

Re: Cooking on small gas camp stoves

Postby andrew_s » 21 Jun 2019, 6:24pm

nsew wrote:Perforations in the base pointed away from the wind? I don’t understand what you’re saying there.

Observe the perforated section on the base of this Trangia 25:
Image

Proper Trangias like this don't need any additional protection from the wind.
The perforated section should be on the windward side of the stove. If you should figure that too much air is getting in, put something next to the stove to obstruct some of the holes, rather than turning the stove round so the holes are on the leeward side.

Your stove isn't "a Trangia". It's a Trangia spirit burner inside some other stove, maybe a woodburner.

nsew
Posts: 219
Joined: 14 Dec 2017, 12:38pm

Re: Cooking on small gas camp stoves

Postby nsew » 22 Jun 2019, 8:55am

andrew_s wrote:
nsew wrote:Perforations in the base pointed away from the wind? I don’t understand what you’re saying there.

Observe the perforated section on the base of this Trangia 25:
Image

Proper Trangias like this don't need any additional protection from the wind.
The perforated section should be on the windward side of the stove. If you should figure that too much air is getting in, put something next to the stove to obstruct some of the holes, rather than turning the stove round so the holes are on the leeward side.

Your stove isn't "a Trangia". It's a Trangia spirit burner inside some other stove, maybe a woodburner.


Thanks for clarifying that, although I think you’re delving into semantics. For myself and others a ‘Trangia’ IS the burner. Personally, I don’t like their cook sets - they’re wholly inferior to individually selected stainless and frankly look and feel like merda. I do like the older Saab’s though. Nb I was more than happy with their ‘Triangle’ support before upgrading the system with the stove shown. But then it was steel.

HobbesOnTour
Posts: 369
Joined: 20 Feb 2017, 5:12pm

Re: Cooking on small gas camp stoves

Postby HobbesOnTour » 22 Jun 2019, 10:47am

Brucey wrote:IME the speed of a Trangia varies with the temperature of the burner as well as the fuel quality as previously discussed. The burner is heated by the proximity of the flame and cooled by both the vaporisation of the fuel and any heat lost through the outside of the burner. So if the burner sees a cool breeze or is sat in a puddle of (cold) water then it'll go fairly slowly. By contrast if the burner is allowed to heat up enough it can practically 'run away' with itself. I think this often happens just before the fuel is exhausted.

My suspicion is that in very cold conditions, it may be beneficial to insulate the burner a little, so that it runs a bit hotter, but I've never really tried it.

One of my other mad ideas is that if you don't mind a bit of soot and you want to eke your fuel out, it may be possible to add scraps of wood to a meths burner, eg by adding a stainless steel mesh 'grate' at the right place. Again not something I have dabbled with much, but could have the advantage that the wood possibly needn't be 100% dry in order to burn and have some benefit.

cheers


I concur with the increased heat leading to a runaway! When getting used to my winter attachment for the Trangia I learned that too much meths in the attachment led to a very hot burner leading to a very active burner!

I'm not sure about eking out the fuel, but I have seen discussions on using the trangia setup using wood to burn instead of the burner - ie no burner used at all. The general consensus was that this damaged the minitrangia frame - excessive heat weakened it, but I saw no evidence pro or con for (half) a traditional Trangia windshield being used in this way. In case of emergency, probably fine, but prolonged use not advisable.

On a whole other level, I have come across cases of people burning high strength whiskey in their burner!