Tent for exposed areas maybe highish winds

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Sweep
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Re: Tent for exposed areas maybe highish winds

Postby Sweep » 14 Jun 2019, 3:19pm

horizon wrote:
Final question: why don't you take the Lodge?


Maybe I'm wrong (am free to be educated) - although I have sat out some storms in it, I had the idea that in an exposed site it might catch the wind more as of course it can't be faced into the wind.

Also, I don't fancy trying to throw its fly over the inner in wet windy conditions.

It is a great tent though.
Sweep

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horizon
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Re: Tent for exposed areas maybe highish winds

Postby horizon » 14 Jun 2019, 4:10pm

pjclinch wrote:
Our main touring tent is the Kaitum 3, selected with the following wish-list:

No more than 3 Kgs (ours is 3 on the nose, current models weigh a bit more as they use heavier pegs and thicker guys)
At least 1.40 wide inner throughout
sitting height through the whole inner
double doors/porches
porches big enough to cook in without contrivance

Nothing there about whether it needs to be a tunnel or not, that just happened to be what it was.



I'm no expert but AFAIK your weight and space requirements would very much have indicated a three person tunnel (it is what a tunnel tent is very good at). Having decided that, you chose a Hilleberg three person tunnel. The correct comparison at that point IMV would have been other three person tunnels*, not other Hillebergs unless they were also three person tunnels. However, my main point is that in the great morass of tents out there, once you decide the type you want then price will pretty much wrap it up, assuming price = quality. I'm just saying this to ease the path of anyone still deciding on a tent (though given the weather, it is likely to be a caravan :mrgreen: ).

* I know that's quite a wide generalisation but it's not far off the mark for the sake of argument. There will of course be borderline cases.

So it's needs - type - price point - value in that order IMV.
I have two doctors, my left leg and my right leg. (G. M. Trevelyan)
PS I always wondered why the YHA HQ was called Trevelyan House. :)

mercalia
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Re: Tent for exposed areas maybe highish winds

Postby mercalia » 14 Jun 2019, 5:35pm

Sweep wrote:
horizon wrote:
Final question: why don't you take the Lodge?


Maybe I'm wrong (am free to be educated) - although I have sat out some storms in it, I had the idea that in an exposed site it might catch the wind more as of course it can't be faced into the wind.

Also, I don't fancy trying to throw its fly over the inner in wet windy conditions.

It is a great tent though.


well a Vaude tent? The inner is attached to the outer in my old Mk 2. all goes up together

dim
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Re: Tent for exposed areas maybe highish winds

Postby dim » 14 Jun 2019, 6:22pm

One of the guys who works with me often tours on his MTB with tent, sleeping bag etc

He said that he and his mates bought their tents and some other gear from Alpkit and everyone is happy:

https://www.alpkit.com/featured/tents

rualexander
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Re: Tent for exposed areas maybe highish winds

Postby rualexander » 14 Jun 2019, 6:31pm

Some Vango F10 tents for sale on Sport Pursuit just now https://www.sportpursuit.com/sales/vang ... type=Tents

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Sweep
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Re: Tent for exposed areas maybe highish winds

Postby Sweep » 14 Jun 2019, 9:27pm

dim wrote:One of the guys who works with me often tours on his MTB with tent, sleeping bag etc

He said that he and his mates bought their tents and some other gear from Alpkit and everyone is happy:

https://www.alpkit.com/featured/tents

Not very specific dim.
Sweep

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horizon
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Re: Tent for exposed areas maybe highish winds

Postby horizon » 14 Jun 2019, 9:31pm

horizon wrote: However, my main point is that in the great morass of tents out there ....
I have two doctors, my left leg and my right leg. (G. M. Trevelyan)
PS I always wondered why the YHA HQ was called Trevelyan House. :)

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Sweep
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Re: Tent for exposed areas maybe highish winds

Postby Sweep » 14 Jun 2019, 9:32pm

rualexander wrote:Some Vango F10 tents for sale on Sport Pursuit just now https://www.sportpursuit.com/sales/vang ... type=Tents

Mm have heard of that site ru, and complaints about it. A pop up blocks my sight of anything unless I sjgn in, and it suggests that I might want to do that via fbook. I'd rather walk into wind and rain.
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Re: Tent for exposed areas maybe highish winds

Postby rualexander » 14 Jun 2019, 10:07pm

Sweep wrote:
rualexander wrote:Some Vango F10 tents for sale on Sport Pursuit just now https://www.sportpursuit.com/sales/vang ... type=Tents

Mm have heard of that site ru, and complaints about it. A pop up blocks my sight of anything unless I sjgn in, and it suggests that I might want to do that via fbook. I'd rather walk into wind and rain.


I've ordered from them several times with no problems, but I suppose it is a hassle having to sign in to see what's on sale, you don't have to use facebook though.
Here's a screenshot of the Vango tents on sale just now.
Image Attachments
Screenshot_20190614-220344.png

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Sweep
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Re: Tent for exposed areas maybe highish winds

Postby Sweep » 15 Jun 2019, 5:49am

Thanks, will pass on them though.
Find their approach plain odd.
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Re: Tent for exposed areas maybe highish winds

Postby pjclinch » 15 Jun 2019, 6:29pm

horizon wrote:
pjclinch wrote:
Our main touring tent is the Kaitum 3, selected with the following wish-list:

No more than 3 Kgs (ours is 3 on the nose, current models weigh a bit more as they use heavier pegs and thicker guys)
At least 1.40 wide inner throughout
sitting height through the whole inner
double doors/porches
porches big enough to cook in without contrivance

Nothing there about whether it needs to be a tunnel or not, that just happened to be what it was.



I'm no expert but AFAIK your weight and space requirements would very much have indicated a three person tunnel (it is what a tunnel tent is very good at). Having decided that, you chose a Hilleberg three person tunnel. The correct comparison at that point IMV would have been other three person tunnels*, not other Hillebergs unless they were also three person tunnels.


We looked at every manufacturer we could find that sold something that fitted the bill, and then decided beyond that that the Kaitum 3 was the one we liked the most.

horizon wrote: However, my main point is that in the great morass of tents out there, once you decide the type you want then price will pretty much wrap it up, assuming price = quality. I'm just saying this to ease the path of anyone still deciding on a tent (though given the weather, it is likely to be a caravan :mrgreen: ).

* I know that's quite a wide generalisation but it's not far off the mark for the sake of argument. There will of course be borderline cases.

So it's needs - type - price point - value in that order IMV.


I disagree. The devil tends to be in the detail and details can overrule "type". The Kaitum 3 replaced a Saunders Snowcat (a modified transverse tunnel) which technically fitted the exact bill of fare presented above but my wife simply didn't like it. During the search we looked at extended porch tunnels, looking at a Nallo 2 GT and a Lightwave t2xt. We both thught the Lightwave was better once pitched, but pitching was a dreadful faff compared to the Nallo. We both came away feeling that each would do the job, but they didn't quite have the X factor. It's not price = quality, it's does the price you pay go on things that matter to you that make your camping experience better. A Keron and a Kaitum are both 3 pole tunnels at a similar size and price. Which one is better depends on what you're looking for

Rather than choose a price point you'll spend you set a maximum budget (not the same thing), because you can't spend more than you'll spend. Then you decide what particular job you want to do and look at as many tents as possible that might do it, and buy the one that you're happiest with (with price being a factor in the happiness). From my features list above, let's say we relaxed the weight restriction a bit to ~4 Kg... Now I can have (even with Hille's lineup alone) the Kaitum 3, a Staika, a Tarra or a Keron 3, and which we'd choose (from a list that would include many others too) would depend on space layout and a crawl around, ease of pitching etc. and not the pole configuration.

In short, pitch and crawl to get the best idea, and there's more than one way to skin a cat.

Pete.
Often seen riding a bike around Dundee...

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horizon
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Re: Tent for exposed areas maybe highish winds

Postby horizon » 16 Jun 2019, 11:52am

I thnk we are splitting hairs here but given the confusion in posts above, I think it is worth clarifying.

I like your pitch and crawl idea: OK, so that's all about needs, what works, size, weight etc. I think that will dictate a type and if you have really done your homework you would probably get it down to just one type (e.g. tunnel or extended tunnel). Even if two types will do the job (in different ways) you still have to decide! My contention here is that tents do fall into types.

My next contention is that every tent maker makes every type (OK, OK, that's not quite true) and you can therefore buy the type you want at different price points. I'm thinking that at this stage, price will trump marginal weight saving, quality etc. I wouldn't even begin to argue that my Robens at £170 is better or as good as a Hilleberg at £1000 even if it is adequate for the job.

You can then compare two or three tents for finer details but within your budget and, very importantly, all of the correct type.

From my features list above, let's say we relaxed the weight restriction a bit to ~4 Kg... Now I can have (even with Hille's lineup alone) the Kaitum 3, a Staika, a Tarra or a Keron 3, and which we'd choose (from a list that would include many others too) would depend on space layout and a crawl around, ease of pitching etc. and not the pole configuration.


That's a fair point but I'm sceptical as to whether weight will often put you into a different type. I would say type of tent will determine weight (e.g. one or two person) and then you can compare weights between tents of the same type. I accept that may not always be the case but it will usualy drive the choice.


I say all this simply to make it easy for people to navigate their way through thousands of tents. The real problem IMV is that people aren't sure about what type of tent they really want and end up comparing apples and oranges.
I have two doctors, my left leg and my right leg. (G. M. Trevelyan)
PS I always wondered why the YHA HQ was called Trevelyan House. :)

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Re: Tent for exposed areas maybe highish winds

Postby pjclinch » 16 Jun 2019, 12:15pm

It remains the case that tents are inherently compromises and you can't have everything you want. So I like a nice taught inner but I also like a nice big inner... the first favours a geodesic and the second a tunnel, so which one do I want? It's not clear cut, and in practise there will be some set of compromises that are okay but others that aren't, but it's not safe to assume they'll all be tunnels or all be domes.

We should be getting in to wild camping again soon and now being family-free and older and creakier something lighter will fit the bill. Our Hubba Hubba HP will do for now, but if the Lottery ticket comes up... I would find it very hard to choose between, for example, an Anjan GT and a Rogen, because they'd both do the job we want. The imperfections will be in different places, but both designs would do what we want very well. It's not even clear what colour to take, with red and sand both having plus and minus points.

Pete.
Often seen riding a bike around Dundee...

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horizon
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Re: Tent for exposed areas maybe highish winds

Postby horizon » 16 Jun 2019, 12:34pm

pjclinch wrote: I would find it very hard to choose between, for example, an Anjan GT and a Rogen,


Nice tents - it's always a pleasure to look at the Hilleberg website anyway - it's clear and informative, a really nice design.

My point would be that it is here that the real choice that has to be made. It's a hard choice even though there's no weight difference. My fear is that well-meaning posters might suggest all sorts of cheaper, lighter, Hubba-Hubba, on-offer, ex-army, friends' tents, Decathlon, tarps, B and B etc etc when really you have an imponderable choice to make and those two tents sum it up - price, budget, quality can come later (you've already dealt with those things anyway). Most people who are unsure which tent to get haven't done their Pitch and Crawl (I really do like that :D ).

I feel strongly about this process because two or three years ago I dropped my objection to a 100% synthetic tent and the whole tent market was suddenly opened up to me and the choice went from just two tents to several thousands in a bewildering variety of types, prices and configurations. Working my way through this made me realise that once you have worked out type and size and then your budget, the choice is pretty straightforward.
I have two doctors, my left leg and my right leg. (G. M. Trevelyan)
PS I always wondered why the YHA HQ was called Trevelyan House. :)

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Re: Tent for exposed areas maybe highish winds

Postby pjclinch » 16 Jun 2019, 1:29pm

horizon wrote:I feel strongly about this process because two or three years ago I dropped my objection to a 100% synthetic tent and the whole tent market was suddenly opened up to me and the choice went from just two tents to several thousands in a bewildering variety of types, prices and configurations. Working my way through this made me realise that once you have worked out type and size and then your budget, the choice is pretty straightforward.


Again I come back to there being two basic types: tents that you're happy with and the others. Narrowing down to a final selection means making decisions at some point along the line, but the truth of the matter is that it'll typically be the case that there will be a huge range of models that will actually fit a given job quite acceptably. So if you want to start off deciding what basic configuration you want then that's fine, but you could equally have started with what colour you want (actually a significant detail for many, Force 10s were bright orange for the very specific design reason of a sunny-seeming aspect inside) and ended up with an acceptable choice for your specific job. You have to take decisions and draw lines, but there's not a single definitive approach to how to do that (e.g., the chap on another thread who was starting off with a choice of flysheet material).

In terms of will you get something that will do the job acceptably well, the choice is indeed straightforward as you only need to do enough to make sure you don't buy a duffer. Getting the absolute bestest thing for you and your job and being sure of that is practically impossible, because there's no way to really evaluate all the possible options properly. Much like bikes, in other words. But the important thing is it's easy to get something good enough, and as long as you're happy with it you're in business.

Pete.
Often seen riding a bike around Dundee...