Do synthetic bags skimp on the wadding stabilising quilting vs clothing with same insultation.

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SA_SA_SA
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Do synthetic bags skimp on the wadding stabilising quilting vs clothing with same insultation.

Postby SA_SA_SA » 6 Jul 2019, 10:16pm

I have some jackets and bodywarmers(gilets) using shelled quilted synthetic wadding:
these survive being washed in a washing machine on delicates but:
I put a gelert envelope* bag in and it was destroyed because the wadding was not sewn at the edges of the bag just the modern snake of stitching down the centre; the amount of stitching also seems less in such bags: being washable seems the main advantage of synthetic (I hate sleeping bag liners and long pyjamas,,,) so surely there should be enough stitching to avoid this.
Perhaps one should just beef up the stitching on any such summer bags oneself?

*IMHO mummy bags are only good for people who always sleep on their back(or front?) and in summer an envelope bag and hat is more comfortable for side sleepers.
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Re: Do synthetic bags skimp on the wadding stabilising quilting vs clothing with same insultation.

Postby Cunobelin » 7 Jul 2019, 8:44am

I have always found that muy "mummy bag" moved with me - on my back, side even front!

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Re: Do synthetic bags skimp on the wadding stabilising quilting vs clothing with same insultation.

Postby pjclinch » 7 Jul 2019, 6:32pm

While I'd agree a rectangular bag is probably a better tool in benign temperatures, I generally sleep on my side and have no particular problem with mummy bags (if it's cold I wear a hat because I'm a slaphead, it has to be Properly Cold before I use the hood as I find they're a bit of a faff whichever way I'm sleeping).

As to your headline problem, I guess we're in the realm of You Pays Your Money And Takes Your Choice: summer synthetic rectangular bags are pretty much the bottom of the food chain so I'd guess the cheaper ones will not typically be particularly well made :(

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Re: Do synthetic bags skimp on the wadding stabilising quilting vs clothing with same insultation.

Postby SA_SA_SA » 7 Jul 2019, 9:56pm

Cunobelin wrote:I have always found that muy "mummy bag" moved with me - on my back, side even front!

I find the shape means my knees hit and are constrained by the shape whereas this doesn;t happen with a simple rectangular envelope bag.

pjclinch wrote:....As to your headline problem, I guess we're in the realm of You Pays Your Money And Takes Your Choice: summer synthetic rectangular bags are pretty much the bottom of the food chain so I'd guess the cheaper ones will not typically be particularly well made :( ....

But I thought the 'washing is bad for them' applies to expensive synthetic bags too just not as dramatically as my Gelert (ie they lose a lot of insulation ability). Has this changed? Clothing seems to have much more stabilising quilt sewing.

Has anyone washed their snugpak travelpak-traveller rectangle bag multiple times without issue? https://www.snugpak.com/outdoor/sleeping-bags/travelpak-traveller
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Re: Do synthetic bags skimp on the wadding stabilising quilting vs clothing with same insultation.

Postby pjclinch » 11 Jul 2019, 8:24am

SA_SA_SA wrote:
Cunobelin wrote:I have always found that muy "mummy bag" moved with me - on my back, side even front!

I find the shape means my knees hit and are constrained by the shape whereas this doesn;t happen with a simple rectangular envelope bag.


ME's Sleepwalker range looks to be a bit of a compromise shape they call a "valley fit". Quoting their spiel:
Providing the greatest possible room and comfort. Not merely an oversized sleeping bag, the shape has been refined to provide luxury but good thermal performance too. The hood of the bag will accommodate a full-size pillow, the bags main body profile will easily accommodate the user lying on their side or in a relaxed posture whilst the enlarged foot box gives extra wiggle room even for the most restless of sleepers!
Whether that's accurate in any way I have no idea, but it's what they say...

SA_SA_SA wrote:
pjclinch wrote:....As to your headline problem, I guess we're in the realm of You Pays Your Money And Takes Your Choice: summer synthetic rectangular bags are pretty much the bottom of the food chain so I'd guess the cheaper ones will not typically be particularly well made :( ....

But I thought the 'washing is bad for them' applies to expensive synthetic bags too just not as dramatically as my Gelert (ie they lose a lot of insulation ability). Has this changed? Clothing seems to have much more stabilising quilt sewing.


While I don't use synthetic pits I do use synthetic hollow fibre insulated jackets and I must say I've not come across a general "washing is bad" vibe for synthetics, and have found it a definite advantage in jackets that I can just chuck them in the machine.
Because fillings vary (some synthetics are now loose down-a-likes) and how the bats are anchored will be implementation dependent I'd be inclined to get in touch with the manufacturers and ask them directly about care of specific models. Pondering to myself, I'd think there should be a care label in the bag? If so and you wash it according to that and it dies (or is mortally wounded) I think you'd have a legitimate moan for Gelert's customer service.

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Re: Do synthetic bags skimp on the wadding stabilising quilting vs clothing with same insultation.

Postby pwa » 11 Jul 2019, 8:48am

Gelert is a very cheap brand. I'd imagine that is where the problem is, rather than the filling being synthetic. There will be synthetic fill bags out there that are much better made.

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Re: Do synthetic bags skimp on the wadding stabilising quilting vs clothing with same insultation.

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 11 Jul 2019, 9:30am

Hi,
Agreed, Gelert Is a cheap Brand, not sure how cheap they are today.
I've brought some gelert walking shoes They fell apart after just a few walks :?

I brought a cheap gelert Sleeping bag some years ago and for the money it's perfectly okay, I believe I paid something like £15.
I've also a bivvy bag Which I've never used, I'm just due to go on a tour of Devon and Cornwall, will see how they last :P

Trouble is nowadays most stuff has been rebranded several times?

Edited – on sleeping bags they was being cut just so, that's to claim performance and light weight.
If you buy a bigger bag then expect it to weigh more.
No different to tents, constant cycles in race to the bottom in light weight, then they blow down and fall apart.
also always check dimensions and weights, quite common to find some pretty wild claims here.
Many years ago I brought two snug pack sleeping bags on performance and weight, only to find when I got home they were 300 Grams heavier, Sales guy said they are always a bit out, we decided to keep them as it was mainly for car camping.
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Re: Do synthetic bags skimp on the wadding stabilising quilting vs clothing with same insultation.

Postby Graham O » 12 Jul 2019, 10:46am

With regards the amount of quilting in a sleeping bag relative to clothing, there may well be a different amount of quilting between them, but I would suggest, that for a quality brand (a very relative term), it is not to do with cost cutting or "skimping". Some fibres designed for sleeping bags can be used in relatively large panels before they need to be stabilised by quilting. Quilting also results in a compressed area of insulation, so it is colder and therefore to be avoided. Finally, sleeping bags generally have an easier life than clothing, so will be subject to less wear and tear, so again they don't need as much quilting.

The problem of comparing them is also made harder as the quilted "puffa" jacket look is fashionable and some garments have extra quilting just for cosmetic reasons. I looked at jacket recently from a top end brand and it had 5 different quilting patterns in it, all in the name of fashion.

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Re: Do synthetic bags skimp on the wadding stabilising quilting vs clothing with same insultation.

Postby Ivor Tingting » 12 Jul 2019, 11:11am

As others have already said Gelert is a very cheap camping brand and use correspondingly cheap materials and manufacture. I wouldn't buy anything made by them. Buy cheap buy three or four times in their case. Their stuff is typically bought by young festival goers who want to use it once then bin it. I would never ever buy one of their sleeping bags. You may as well throw your money away.

Also I ask how come you are so keen to wash insulated clothing and sleeping bags? I have lots and I don't think I have ever washed an insulated jacket i.e. down jacket or sleeping bag and I have used them lots. I use sleeping bag liners as well which protects your bag, but I guess if you are using a really cheap brand whether you use a liner or not isn't going to make much difference. It might even double the thermal rating of a gelert bag anyway and certainly double the value!

You certainly don't want to be washing insulated clothing and sleeping bags whether synthetic Primaloft or Down unless you absolutely have to. Rab offers a cleaning service for all it's down insulated clothing and sleeping bags. They might also do their synthetic fill bags as well. They come back like new.
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Re: Do synthetic bags skimp on the wadding stabilising quilting vs clothing with same insultation.

Postby pjclinch » 12 Jul 2019, 12:03pm

Ivor Tingting wrote:Also I ask how come you are so keen to wash insulated clothing and sleeping bags? I have lots and I don't think I have ever washed an insulated jacket i.e. down jacket or sleeping bag and I have used them lots.


My down jacket I save for "best" (i.e, whenever it's very cold and I'm taking it somewhere where weight and bulk matters). That means it doesn't actually get used much so even though it's 20 years old it still lofts as if more or less new. If you use them a lot they get dirty, and if they get dirty their performance drops (same goes for DWR coatings on raincoats, so I only wear my high-end waterproofs when it matters). Pals with similar bodels bought about the same time who used them as general purpose coats on a day to day basis had the loft decrease quite dramatically over the course of a few years.
Synthetics like Primaloft are much easier to wash, which is handy as I don't feel a need to save them for "best". My usual winter coat is a Primaloft jacket that I bought half price in last-year's-colour over 10 years ago, I wash it about once a year and it's still in pretty good shape, and it isn't filthy either.

Ivor Tingting wrote:You certainly don't want to be washing insulated clothing and sleeping bags whether synthetic Primaloft or Down unless you absolutely have to. Rab offers a cleaning service for all it's down insulated clothing and sleeping bags. They might also do their synthetic fill bags as well. They come back like new.


A good professional cleaning service for down is well worth the money IMHO. Although I use liners, after enough years they get dirty, loft starts to drop and a proper clean does wonders. They're not cheap but it'll do you for a decade or more and in the meantime you get the lighter weight and lower bulk. But I don't see the problem of washing stuff like Primaloft. It's easy to do and shouldn't cause it any particular damage.
With down, the value of "absolutely have to" is potentially a tricky call. Leave it too long and the dirt will start to damage the down .

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Re: Do synthetic bags skimp on the wadding stabilising quilting vs clothing with same insultation.

Postby SA_SA_SA » 18 Jul 2019, 7:56pm

pjclinch wrote:..... I must say I've not come across a general "washing is bad" vibe for synthetics, and have found it a definite advantage in jackets that I can just chuck them in the machine.....

It was always the advice about synthetic in the past (and recently in discussions of down vs synthetic bags ) in my experience. And those would have included 'expensive' synthetic bags.
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