Vango or Vaude

Specifically for cycle touring subjects & questions
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Sweep
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Re: Vango or Vaude

Postby Sweep » 14 Sep 2019, 11:33am

pjclinch wrote:I don't really see how a "cycle camping tent" differs appreciably from a "backpacking tent". .


I assume it's akin to how a car camping tent might differ from a cycle camping tent.

ie: In both cases the former can be heavier without any great problem. And hence quite possibly cheaper for what it delivers.
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sizbut
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Re: Vango or Vaude

Postby sizbut » 14 Sep 2019, 1:03pm

I don't really see how a "cycle camping tent" differs appreciably from a "backpacking tent". .


Do the poles fold short enough for a pannier bag is a good criteria for cycle friendly.

In the last few weeks I've been comparing a Vaude Power Lizard 2-3p and a Vaude Hogan XT. Just on folded pole length, the 'Power Lizard' (who comes up with these names?) won. It also won on simplicity of pitching.

I can say that the quality of both was there to see, that's a given I think with Vaude. But both were radically different in ease of pitching. The Hogan employed so many different types of connector for poles to inner, outer to poles and inner to outer is was guaranteed you'd miss one. And when finally pitched, compare to the single hoop Lizard you really didn't notice any space difference inside except for the minimal porch space on the Lizard.

See and testing has to be the real test. I've now found the tent I like (replacing a venerable Saunders Spacepacker) but I can see how some people would hate it.

KFT
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Re: Vango or Vaude

Postby KFT » 14 Sep 2019, 1:14pm

Cotswold ae giving 20% off all online orders until Tuesday 17th Sept.
Cairngorm 200 is at £110 and th Vaude at £210 (both before the disount). The Caingorm 300 is at £105

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pjclinch
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Re: Vango or Vaude

Postby pjclinch » 14 Sep 2019, 1:57pm

sizbut wrote:
I don't really see how a "cycle camping tent" differs appreciably from a "backpacking tent". .


Do the poles fold short enough for a pannier bag is a good criteria for cycle friendly.


It's certainly something to consider, hence my "are you okay with the load (weight and bulk) you'll have to carry", but of course not all riders will have the same luggage. Our tent fits in our bags, might not fit in yours, might not fit in a bikepacking rig. So this is an individual's circumstances, not "this is better for cycling"

sizbut wrote:See and testing has to be the real test. I've now found the tent I like (replacing a venerable Saunders Spacepacker) but I can see how some people would hate it.


Absolutely. My Spacepacker is still a go-to solo option for me, but my wife loathes it.

Sweep wrote:
pjclinch wrote:I don't really see how a "cycle camping tent" differs appreciably from a "backpacking tent". .


I assume it's akin to how a car camping tent might differ from a cycle camping tent.

ie: In both cases the former can be heavier without any great problem. And hence quite possibly cheaper for what it delivers.


Given the amount of time, effort and money spent on making cycling kit lighter I'm not convinced this is necessarily a significant majority view. I wouldn't want to use my bunker-class tent (~ 4 Kg) for cycle touring. It's great out of a boat. So again, this is down to personal preference rather than a clear cycle/foot divide.

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Thehairs1970
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Re: Vango or Vaude

Postby Thehairs1970 » 14 Sep 2019, 5:26pm

My son has a Banshee 300. It's a well built tent and good VFM.

Couple of things. He and his teenage sister shared it on a recent tour in the Alps. Storage space is minimal. Ok for a rucksack, two at a push but 6 panniers and 2 handlebar bags didn't work. Luckily we have a huge porch on our tent so we could have some of their stuff.

Condensation. They really suffered whereas we had very little.

The 300 btw is the three man not the two.

Not saying these have to make you change your mind, but better to know than not.

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horizon
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Re: Vango or Vaude

Postby horizon » 14 Sep 2019, 6:33pm

pjclinch wrote:And I'm also ambivalent about starting off with the type of tent: IMHO the type is what it is when you've worried about the other stuff, that being are you okay with the load (weight and bulk) you'll have to carry, is it acceptably easy to pitch and when that's done are you okay with the shelter provided (strength, space, storage possibilities, headroom, venting, Magic X Factor) and can you take the price?

Pete.


I would say that broadly all those factors would predispose towards a particular type of tent. Not totally, as strength for instance and weight may vary at price levels. So yes, they come first but then you have your type. I think it is very difficult to compare two very different types of tents. That was certainly my experience when I decided on a two person extended tunnel. Once I had established that it had to be that type, my budget limit followed and then it was a choice of colour, brand and quality (or whatever). Even weight was no longer a factor as that had been set by type.
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Re: Vango or Vaude

Postby pjclinch » 15 Sep 2019, 12:37pm

horizon wrote:
pjclinch wrote:And I'm also ambivalent about starting off with the type of tent: IMHO the type is what it is when you've worried about the other stuff, that being are you okay with the load (weight and bulk) you'll have to carry, is it acceptably easy to pitch and when that's done are you okay with the shelter provided (strength, space, storage possibilities, headroom, venting, Magic X Factor) and can you take the price?


I would say that broadly all those factors would predispose towards a particular type of tent. Not totally, as strength for instance and weight may vary at price levels. So yes, they come first but then you have your type. I think it is very difficult to compare two very different types of tents. That was certainly my experience when I decided on a two person extended tunnel. Once I had established that it had to be that type, my budget limit followed and then it was a choice of colour, brand and quality (or whatever). Even weight was no longer a factor as that had been set by type.


It depends what your goalposts are though. So my layout goalposts generally include twin porches and entrances as What I Like, and that means I will (and indeed did) consider single hoops alongside twin-ended tunnels against porch-each-side domes.

You say weight wasn't a factor as it had been set by type, but that's not really the case. A Nammatj 2 GT and an Anjan 2GT are both extended porch tunnels based on the same design DNA, both no-expense-spared, both from the same company, but they're very different beasts aimed at different users doing different things in different places, and have very different weights (3.7 vs 2.1 Kg)

If you want a Very Big Porch your options are guided by tunnels being an easy thing to add length to. There are exceptions, like putting a Gear Shed on the side of a Hubba, but there are shopping lists that don't send a one down such a well defined road.

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Re: Vango or Vaude

Postby horizon » 15 Sep 2019, 5:57pm

Pete: we seem to discuss this quite often and we have these different starting points! But I do think the discussion is worth having, particularly when people post about their tent conundrums. We all want the perfect tent and have to weigh up compromises. I got my Vango Force Ten Mark 2 out over the weekend, dusted it down and set it up. I ruminated in the sunshine over what I liked about it compared to my Robens and which I would use in different conditions. The Robens porch was so critical and yet the cotton inner on the Vango (see thread on warmth) was a huge plus. I have both tents but I can only take one on a trip and were I to buy either one new and now, it would be a hard choice. Ultimately, I would have to decide on how important that porch is and whether it is the deal breaker.
I have two doctors, my left leg and my right leg. (G. M. Trevelyan)
PS I always wondered why the YHA HQ was called Trevelyan House. :)

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Re: Vango or Vaude

Postby pjclinch » 17 Sep 2019, 10:48am

horizon wrote:Pete: we seem to discuss this quite often and we have these different starting points! But I do think the discussion is worth having, particularly when people post about their tent conundrums. We all want the perfect tent and have to weigh up compromises. I got my Vango Force Ten Mark 2 out over the weekend, dusted it down and set it up. I ruminated in the sunshine over what I liked about it compared to my Robens and which I would use in different conditions. The Robens porch was so critical and yet the cotton inner on the Vango (see thread on warmth) was a huge plus. I have both tents but I can only take one on a trip and were I to buy either one new and now, it would be a hard choice. Ultimately, I would have to decide on how important that porch is and whether it is the deal breaker.


You used to be able to get extended porch Force 10s, at least for the bigger models. I know someone that uses an extended Mk 5 as a paddling tent.

Not an intrinsically awkward DIY for the suitably ambitious, as you just drop a ridge extension on to the front A-piece and procure an extra set of legs and another A to complete the porch frame.

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horizon
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Re: Vango or Vaude

Postby horizon » 17 Sep 2019, 11:41am

pjclinch wrote:
You used to be able to get extended porch Force 10s, at least for the bigger models. I know someone that uses an extended Mk 5 as a paddling tent.

Not an intrinsically awkward DIY for the suitably ambitious, as you just drop a ridge extension on to the front A-piece and procure an extra set of legs and another A to complete the porch frame.

Pete.


They used to come up occasionally on ebay for the Mk 2 (though they may have been common to Mk 3s) but I never saw one in worthwhile enough condition to buy. I dropped the idea when I was having concurrent problems with the flysheet (I've since acquired another) but you've got me thinking again. I have a spare A frame so it's thinking time again! Hmmm.

To be fair to your point earlier in the thread though, adding an extension on a ForceTen might take it above carryable weight: my assumption on someone choosing an extended porch two man tunnel was that they are all bikeable (my Robens certainly is).
I have two doctors, my left leg and my right leg. (G. M. Trevelyan)
PS I always wondered why the YHA HQ was called Trevelyan House. :)

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Re: Vango or Vaude

Postby pjclinch » 17 Sep 2019, 1:11pm

horizon wrote:To be fair to your point earlier in the thread though, adding an extension on a ForceTen might take it above carryable weight: my assumption on someone choosing an extended porch two man tunnel was that they are all bikeable (my Robens certainly is).


If you're using a cotton F10 I just assumed you had a team of trained porters to carry it around for you...

It's "for some values of bikeable", of course. No shortage of weight weenies who would draw the line a long way apart from a Nammatj or Kaitum 2 GT, for example. If you're armed with bikepacking bags or want to keep everything down to a pair of "universal" panniers there's plenty that wouldn't really fit.

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horizon
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Re: Vango or Vaude

Postby horizon » 17 Sep 2019, 2:19pm

pjclinch wrote:If you're using a cotton F10 I just assumed you had a team of trained porters to carry it around for you...

Pete.


On a post a few years ago ( :shock: ) I mentioned meeting three roadies while on a trip in Warwickshire using this tent. I pointed out to them that my luggage weighed as much as their three bikes combined. :lol:

It was fine though (until the flysheet started to leak). I'm thinking of using it on local trips, low mileages and in the winter(ish) as a sort of base camp.
I have two doctors, my left leg and my right leg. (G. M. Trevelyan)
PS I always wondered why the YHA HQ was called Trevelyan House. :)

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Re: Vango or Vaude

Postby Vorpal » 17 Sep 2019, 4:05pm

I'm not familiar with the Vaude. I have a Vango Spectre 300, which is similar to the Banshee 300 (both 3 person tents). It's been fine in some pretty wet weather, though we've had a little condensation in it a few times. Without abusing it, we bent a couple of the pole sections, though they don't seem to affect it structurally. It's absolutely fine for weekends away.

That said, I think if it were me, I'd spend a bit more and get the Vaude. One reason is merely personal preference. I slightly prefer an end opening to a side opening. The other reason though, is that I think the porch, which can be unzipped on either side, is better on the Vaude.

That comes to the most important part of my post...

As others have said, different tents have different advantages & disadvantages. whether the Vaude is worth the extra money largely depends upon personal choice. If the grant covers either, and the money isn't needed for other purchases (other camping equipment?), my choice would be clear, but maybe not if I could include some other tents in the selection process, or if the cost was high on the list of criteria.

You haven't said what the budget is, how important cost is, if you have already narrowed your selection down, or the choice is severely limited by the grant received.

If you still can't decide, make a list of the criteria you think are important?
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Re: Vango or Vaude

Postby ossie » 17 Sep 2019, 8:52pm

foxyrider wrote:The Vaude Hogan is essentially a cheaper version of my Taurus (Taurus has higher hydro figures for example) which pitches very quickly, has survived all the weather you can throw at it and even a tree landing on it. After 10 years of abuse I did spend out on a replacement front pole as it was starting to split - but no wonder given the history!

I was so impressed with the Taurus which is now my back up option, that I bought a Power Lizard SL on the strength of it. Different style of tent but the quality oozes out and it always gets admiring looks on campsites all across Europe.

I have to say that Vango products always feel like they are from 'Boys Own' era, made with good intention but never quite living up to expectations! :wink:


How is the Lizard compared to the Taurus UL ? I have the Taurus UL but the Lizard is lighter I understand. Does the porch extend the length of the tent and is it bigger? I find I have bags of room in the Taurus but like to keep loads in the porch , shoes, panniers, cooking equipment, wine etc and it just doesn't all fit - not a biggie but I wouldnt mind extending some inside room for a bit more external cover for stuff you might not want in your sleeping quarters.

Headroom doesn't worry me as I never sit up in the tent but the weight advantage looks key here.

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Re: Vango or Vaude

Postby RickH » 17 Sep 2019, 10:42pm

Caledonia64 wrote:I have narrowed down my 2 person trekking (cycle camping) tent options to Vango Cairngorm 200 (which is the lighter, new version of the Banshee, apparently, pitches outer first/as one) and Vaude Terra Hogan 2p, pitching outer first/as one). Both have footprints I image.
...
The Vango is single hooped and has the elastic tension band scheme (and won an award as best back packer tent for 2019, it appears).

I've no knowledge of Vaude tents but a minor point on the Vango option:- the Cairngorm seems to be modelled on the Zenith (with a single hoop plus short end poles to increase useable space) rather than the Banshee (2 squared off hoops, 1 larger than the other, & the doors between the poles).

I have both - an old Banshee 200 (inner pitch first design) & a Zenith 300 (bargain I couldn't resist - 75% off in a closing down sale) - but I'm not sure there is much in performance terms between them. The 300 is obviously bigger whichever model you choose - I tend to use the Banshee if I'm not going to be staying more than 1 night, or possibly 2, in the same location, I'll choose the zenith if I'm likely to base myself in one place for longer.

I think the Banshee has better (closeable) vents in the fly, but later versions may not be the same. The Zenith design has better central headroom as it doesn't have the reduced height that the shaped poles of the Banshee give.

Overall I've been pleased with the design/weight/cost balance of both my Vangos.