Bivvi bags - advice please

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LinusR
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Re: Bivvi bags - advice please

Postby LinusR » 30 Jan 2020, 2:09pm

Incidentally, I went into Blacks - the outdoor and camping shop - yesterday. Shop assistant asks me: "Are you looking for something in particular?" Yes, I say. Do you have any bivvy bags? "What?" came the reply. Yes, you know. To sleep in with your sleeping bag. "Um..., err..." It's sort of like a little tent, says me trying to be helpful to the camping department staff member. "Ah, a tent. We don't have tents in the winter stock. We'll have them in the spring. Come back then."

I don't think I'll ask again...

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LinusR
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Re: Bivvi bags - advice please

Postby LinusR » 30 Jan 2020, 2:11pm

mattheus wrote:If you take just a little care, mats generally survive most surfaces. (you're sleeping on it, not sledging off PenYFan, right?)


Know my pitching skills, I may well be sledging off the side of the mountain...

Tangled Metal
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Re: Bivvi bags - advice please

Postby Tangled Metal » 30 Jan 2020, 3:55pm

I know enough cases of air mats and TARs puncturing in tents to know you cannot guarantee anything. That's why they often come with repair kits. Mine had a little pocket inside the stuff sack to carry it. Out of 3 bought only one is functional for various issues. All used in tents.

I remember a walking forum debate over shelters. A ULer who rocked a laser ultra in cuben fibre fly made the point that once you factored in tarp, bivvy, groundsheet you're carrying more weight than an ul tent. A few pointed out that his ul tent cost a factor of 10x the bivvy option most had for often not more weight saving. I had a tarp and bivvy that was less than 1 kilo by some way and cost me less than £100 by a lot. I didn't use a groundsheet as I had a ccf outside of the bivvy.

The other big advantage was useable space. I'm 6'5" tall. I've tried out friends lasers, atkos, sprites and scarps. I think I only fitted in a scarp2 and atko but they're over a kilo in weight I believe.

It's still a good debate, tent or tarp/ bivvy. I bought a micro tarp for £40 and iirc sub 200g. It is enough to cover top of bivvy and kit so you stay dry. My rab weighed 400g so excluding ccf and sleeping quilt it was a light setup. Didn't use it much as my bivvy was knocking on and started to leak. Plus I got out of camping.

Personally I found that with good shopping you can often get ul kit at good prices and weights to compete nicely with conventional camping kit like the tent option.

nsew
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Re: Bivvi bags - advice please

Postby nsew » 30 Jan 2020, 8:13pm

Tangled Metal wrote:
nsew wrote:Where camping with a tent is illegal, an overnight bivvy is not. More pics.

Not actually sure that's true. Where is your source for that exemption?

Both tent and tarp/ bivvy are leave no trace shelter systems, well so long as you don't cut down branches for poles if course. So I really don't know how you'd distinguish between them through legal instruments.


As I understand it, in Eng & Wal on private land, both systems are ‘simple trespass’. Civil, non arrest. Escalating to a criminal matter (arrest) of ‘aggravated trespass’ if refusing to move on after being asked to by the owner or representative of. Whereas on public land, ‘erecting a tent / shelter’ could be deemed illegal and involve the police. Has anyone ever been prosecuted for an overnight bivvy. I’m sure it’s all open to interpretation and local by-laws. A carefully selected lower branch will suffice but often something already on the ground can be found. Call the police.

nsew
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Re: Bivvi bags - advice please

Postby nsew » 30 Jan 2020, 8:36pm

I don’t think it’s a question of which system (tent or bivvy/tarp) is better, lighter/heavier, costs less/more. They’re two different means of spending the night outdoors. Either system can be lighter / heavier / bulkier depending on materials chosen. You’re certainly more connected to nature / exposed to the elements with a bivvy/bivvy tarp. The learning of the differing ways of setting up a tarp is enjoyable and easily practised. There’s so much more thought involved. Anyway, OP is out for one night and will likely chose a decent couple of days. It’s a natural go to bivvy/tarp outing and less than 6kg should easily be achieved.

Tangled Metal
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Re: Bivvi bags - advice please

Postby Tangled Metal » 30 Jan 2020, 9:28pm

Aaah! Civil vs criminal. I once got told something about civil trespass can be criminal trespass if it prevents or negatively affects the activity of the landowner on that land. Also something about moving some types of trespass from civil to criminal.

Must admit I've never been worried about if because I've only wildcamped in remote, hilly areas. Lakes, highlands and islands. If anyone has been kicked off the land above the intake wall or prosecuted for it I've never heard about it. I've even camped low down in the lakes and in a cow shed in snowdonia when we got there too late and couldn't find the campsite. To be fair our priorities were a bit wrong, we were in the pub on the way down until closing.

mercalia
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Re: Bivvi bags - advice please

Postby mercalia » 31 Jan 2020, 12:31pm

LinusR wrote:Incidentally, I went into Blacks - the outdoor and camping shop - yesterday. Shop assistant asks me: "Are you looking for something in particular?" Yes, I say. Do you have any bivvy bags? "What?" came the reply. Yes, you know. To sleep in with your sleeping bag. "Um..., err..." It's sort of like a little tent, says me trying to be helpful to the camping department staff member. "Ah, a tent. We don't have tents in the winter stock. We'll have them in the spring. Come back then."

I don't think I'll ask again...


you were lucky he knew what a tent was.

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LinusR
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Re: Bivvi bags - advice please

Postby LinusR » 31 Jan 2020, 1:54pm

mercalia wrote:
LinusR wrote:Incidentally, I went into Blacks - the outdoor and camping shop - yesterday. Shop assistant asks me: "Are you looking for something in particular?" Yes, I say. Do you have any bivvy bags? "What?" came the reply. Yes, you know. To sleep in with your sleeping bag. "Um..., err..." It's sort of like a little tent, says me trying to be helpful to the camping department staff member. "Ah, a tent. We don't have tents in the winter stock. We'll have them in the spring. Come back then."

I don't think I'll ask again...


you were lucky he knew what a tent was.


How times have changed. I remember buying a Karrimor lightweight fleece in Blacks back in the late 1990s and I got chatting to the guy serving me and he was a real enthusiast for the outdoors. He eagerly invited me into the back of the shop to show me his touring bike which he used to commute to work on and we chatted for ages about cycle touring and camping.

mattheus
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Re: Bivvi bags - advice please

Postby mattheus » 31 Jan 2020, 2:09pm

Blacks is like Halfords - they seem to employ a mixture of no-interest teens, and enthusiasts who haven't yet found a "proper" job that is also interesting. It's pot-luck!

nsew
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Re: Bivvi bags - advice please

Postby nsew » 1 Feb 2020, 7:08pm

Tangled Metal wrote:Aaah! Civil vs criminal. I once got told something about civil trespass can be criminal trespass if it prevents or negatively affects the activity of the landowner on that land. Also something about moving some types of trespass from civil to criminal.

Must admit I've never been worried about if because I've only wildcamped in remote, hilly areas. Lakes, highlands and islands. If anyone has been kicked off the land above the intake wall or prosecuted for it I've never heard about it. I've even camped low down in the lakes and in a cow shed in snowdonia when we got there too late and couldn't find the campsite. To be fair our priorities were a bit wrong, we were in the pub on the way down until closing.


Cow shed suggests a good time was had. Until rising.

jimlews
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Re: Bivvi bags - advice please

Postby jimlews » 5 Feb 2020, 6:36pm

Tangled Metal wrote: I've even camped low down in the lakes and in a cow shed in snowdonia


Lucky it wasn't a stable; you might have ended up in horsepiddle.

pete75
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Re: Bivvi bags - advice please

Postby pete75 » 12 Feb 2020, 8:39pm

Best one I've used is a Dutch Army bivvi bag. Hooped, Goretex, Mosquito net if you want to leave flap open when it's warm. About 90 quid in good condition from army surplus places.

Tangled Metal
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Re: Bivvi bags - advice please

Postby Tangled Metal » 12 Feb 2020, 9:38pm

jimlews wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote: I've even camped low down in the lakes and in a cow shed in snowdonia


Lucky it wasn't a stable; you might have ended up in horsepiddle.

Or crucified and worshipped as son of God.

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Bivvi bags - advice please

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 12 Feb 2020, 10:39pm

Hi,
pete75 wrote:Best one I've used is a Dutch Army bivvi bag. Hooped, Goretex, Mosquito net if you want to leave flap open when it's warm. About 90 quid in good condition from army surplus places.

I was looking at one the other day on eBay what's the height of the hoop, I think that's the dimension that are left out.
Some of the ex-army ones are quite spacious by the looks of it but they start to come in at 800 g.
Once a hooped bivvy or that sort of thing It's over 1 kg we are in tent land.
NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.

mattsccm
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Re: Bivvi bags - advice please

Postby mattsccm » 15 Feb 2020, 8:43pm

Give your choice of bivvi bag some thought. Some are little more than glorified sleeping bag covers. Great under shelter but not much cop in bad weather. The Alpkit Hunka springs to mind here. At the other end the "traditional" Goretex bag with a zip near the top envelope style will stay as waterproof as any tend in a downpour as long as the zip flap overlaps the zip. No idea if this sort of thing exists anymore though. Mine is a Snowdon Mouldings bag bought from the Llanberis factory in about 1985. Not as light as some but fussing over a few grams is silly. The difference between mine and my mates Hunka is more than made up by the fact that for some stupid reason he takes his mobile camping. :roll: Take sherry instead of beer to drink or spirits if you take sherry. Plenty of ways to lose some weight.