How light can you go?

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iandusud
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Re: How light can you go?

Post by iandusud »

mattheus wrote: 26 May 2021, 9:57am
iandusud wrote: 25 May 2021, 4:34pm
I take your point but be assured we were prepared for all weather conditions, and just as well!
Goodness, I wasn't criticising anyone's gear choices!

I'm just not that keen on the never taking stuff you won't use approach - I much prefer to come home with some emergency kit unused in my bag.

It's always a compromise of course, as you have to make some assumptions, and a little guesswork, so I'm very cautious with blaming victims when bad stuff happens ...
Hi, I didn't think you were criticising my choices and I think you are right to highlight the importance of being prepared for all eventualities when outdoors. As it was we were prepared for very wet and cold weather - just as well!

Ian
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Re: How light can you go?

Post by Vorpal »

KTHSullivan wrote: 25 May 2021, 2:18pm There is indeed a very fine line between travelling light and safety. Experience provides one with the wherewithal to differentiate between speed and safety, it also provides the ability to delineate between adventure and folly. On more than one occasion in the British hills the desire to press on has claimed lives, some of those lives have been lost when the unfortunate soles having been carrying the requisite equipment to survive but did not have the appropriate skills to utilise such.
In the 90s, a friend and I accidently camped in the Cairngorms, without proper equipment (described viewtopic.php?p=1587324#p1587324 ) in an area where there were hypothemia fatalities just weeks before (summer time) in similar circumstances. What was the difference between us & them? Worse or more sudden weather? Experience? Waterproof matches? Luck? Were they more poorly prepared than we were? Did they have some gear & not know how to use it? Or did they simply underestimate their risk? The only information I ever had about the incident was from what the hostel warden said.
KTHSullivan wrote: 25 May 2021, 2:18pm I am not saying that the incident upthread is an indication of inexperience but perhaps something as simple as looking at a weather forecast may have been appropriate.
However the situation occurred, it sounds as though the organisers were not adequately prepared.
mattheus wrote: 26 May 2021, 9:57am I'm just not that keen on the never taking stuff you won't use approach - I much prefer to come home with some emergency kit unused in my bag.

It's always a compromise of course, as you have to make some assumptions, and a little guesswork, so I'm very cautious with blaming victims when bad stuff happens ...
My rule of thumb is one more layer of clothes than I think I need, plus some survival kit (somewhat depends on where I am going). I wouldn't blame victims, but it is of interest to me to understand what happened, if only so I can hopefully avoid it happening to me.
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horizon
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Re: How light can you go?

Post by horizon »

KTHSullivan wrote: 26 May 2021, 10:47am
Having said that most on road cycle touring in western Europe is comparatively safe, providing a degree of caution is exercised.
Most of the time the extra stuff is actually related to comfort - the bike limits how far off the beaten track you can go. The main dangers to life and limb are motor vehicles, criminals, ice and malfunctioning brakes, none of which really relates to what you take (hi-viz, lights and an Allen key for the brakes notwithstanding). So I think you can go very light safely on a bike but the level of comfort may affect people differently.

I've never thought twice for example about cycling alone but used to restrict my sea kayaking to fine days close to the shore when on my own (and the same would apply to hill wallking in winter).
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher
PaulaT
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Re: How light can you go?

Post by PaulaT »

Bmblbzzz wrote: 23 May 2021, 9:52pm Does it filter industrial and agricultural chemical pollutants as well as bacteria?
That I don't know but I'm fairly sure it's illegal to dump such stuff into a water coarse so in theory such pollutants shouldn't be there. Mainly I fill up from small streams but I've filled from the lower reaches of the River Trent and not had a problem.
Pendodave
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Re: How light can you go?

Post by Pendodave »

Just collecting some bits and bobs for a day out tomorrow.
Was slightly perturbed to discover that pump/lock/inner tube/puncture kit/tools and lights came to 1.3kg :oops:
Although its only a day trip, it's my full week tour bits. Thats as much as a small tent...
Maybe I'll have to remove the parts of the multitool i dont know how to use?
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Traction_man
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Re: How light can you go?

Post by Traction_man »

Pendodave wrote: 9 Jun 2021, 3:27pm Just collecting some bits and bobs for a day out tomorrow.
Was slightly perturbed to discover that pump/lock/inner tube/puncture kit/tools and lights came to 1.3kg :oops:
Although its only a day trip, it's my full week tour bits. Thats as much as a small tent...
Maybe I'll have to remove the parts of the multitool i dont know how to use?
It's the lock I find weighs a fair bit but I guess that's the trade off for having something with a decent level of security, like you though I pick and choose the tools I take. It all adds up.

cheers,

Keith
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Re: How light can you go?

Post by foxyrider »

Pendodave wrote: 9 Jun 2021, 3:27pm Just collecting some bits and bobs for a day out tomorrow.
Was slightly perturbed to discover that pump/lock/inner tube/puncture kit/tools and lights came to 1.3kg :oops:
Although its only a day trip, it's my full week tour bits. Thats as much as a small tent...
Maybe I'll have to remove the parts of the multitool i dont know how to use?
little point in carrying anything you don't know how to use!
Convention? what's that then?
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mattheus
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Re: How light can you go?

Post by mattheus »

Pendodave wrote: 9 Jun 2021, 3:27pm Just collecting some bits and bobs for a day out tomorrow.
Was slightly perturbed to discover that pump/lock/inner tube/puncture kit/tools and lights came to 1.3kg :oops:
Although its only a day trip, it's my full week tour bits. Thats as much as a small tent...
Maybe I'll have to remove the parts of the multitool i dont know how to use?
Are you racing? Will 1.3kg really ruin your day?
Bmblbzzz
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Re: How light can you go?

Post by Bmblbzzz »

Think of it this way: 1.3kg of unused (even unusable) tools could have been 1.3kg of lunch!
mattheus
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Re: How light can you go?

Post by mattheus »

Bmblbzzz wrote: 10 Jun 2021, 11:33am Think of it this way: 1.3kg of unused (even unusable) tools could have been 1.3kg of lunch!
I like your thinking!

But why not take both?
willem jongman
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Re: How light can you go?

Post by willem jongman »

I take very few tools and an Aerothan tube. I use generator lights but those admittedly also weigh something.
Jdsk
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Re: How light can you go?

Post by Jdsk »

Pendodave wrote: 9 Jun 2021, 3:27pm Was slightly perturbed to discover that pump/lock/inner tube/puncture kit/tools and lights came to 1.3kg.
Although its only a day trip, it's my full week tour bits. Thats as much as a small tent...
Maybe I'll have to remove the parts of the multitool i dont know how to use?
I've given many bike multitools to others... but I don't carry one either for everyday riding or touring.

Any more total mass of tools, anyone?

Jonathan
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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: How light can you go?

Post by NATURAL ANKLING »

Hi,
Bmblbzzz wrote: 10 Jun 2021, 11:33am Think of it this way: 1.3kg of unused (even unusable) tools could have been 1.3kg of lunch!
When I was cycle camping on Dartmoor I used to take with me about 5 kg of packed lunches, most of that will be gone in the first day.
dragging a 35 kg bike with camping gear over DARTMOOR on off road, for some reason I needed to eat every 2 1/2 hours.
Spent one day doing 30 miles in 12 hours.
No more than five minutes an hour rest.
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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: How light can you go?

Post by NATURAL ANKLING »

Hi,
KTHSullivan wrote: 25 May 2021, 2:18pm There is indeed a very fine line between travelling light and safety. Experience provides one with the wherewithal to differentiate between speed and safety, it also provides the ability to delineate between adventure and folly. On more than one occasion in the British hills the desire to press on has claimed lives, some of those lives have been lost when the unfortunate soles having been carrying the requisite equipment to survive but did not have the appropriate skills to utilise such. I am not saying that the incident upthread is an indication of inexperience but perhaps something as simple as looking at a weather forecast may have been appropriate.
Even though I had some experience with walking and camping having done 10 tors several times in my youth.
I set off in the early 80s might have even been the end of the 70s, to walk the Pennine Way solo.
As I set off in Scotland bloke said in a cottage there he says it will be wet up there it's been raining for two weeks, it wasn't wet it was just frozen solid snow and ice.
My gear wasn't very clever I had an old Campari rucksack, Campari tent, woolworths 38 ounce open top sleeping bag, and no Mat.
But I remember one basic thing heat goes out through the bottom of your sleeping
bag.
My clothing was very basic pair of jeans I'm not even sure I had a T-shirt but a cotton shirt a couple of acrylic jumpers cheap waterproof jacket gaitors and half decent boots.
My jumper and jeans were folded underneath my sleeping bag I got in and wrap the shirt around my neck and shivered, 2 o'clock in the morning water in my billycan was solid.
I underestimated the amount of food I need and then walked 21 miles the next day with a couple of oranges some powdered milk and half a packet of digestive biscuits.

Then in the early 80s again I walked the West Highland Way I had all the gear and probably too many clothes, my rucksack was 53 Ibs dry.
I had underestimated the ice and spent a lot of time sliding around on the footpaths.
nighttime temperature was -10, but I had a mat -20 sleeping bag et cetera.
As I started out postman stopped me in his van and said you're on the West Highland Way I said yes he said he's not seen anybody for three months walking up there, before I set off my old walking partner tried to put me off going and said someone died just recently I'm hypothermia
Didn't put me off I don't really think about that sort of thing either I spend all my time on my own walking cycling et cetera et cetera.
I'm not the most experienced person in the world but basic things that you learn that you should learn when you're younger stay with you.
One don't wear anything in your sleeping bag.
You do need a mat between you and the ground.
If you ever get lost its valleys and then rivers to civilisation.
The higher you go the colder it gets, so put your coat on when you get to the top of the hill.
Just recently and of course cycling is totally different if I stop for even less than five minutes I would start to go cold quite quickly if the temperature is like five or 8°.
Cycling gear is of course is basically windproof but doesn't keep you very warm statically.
I have once been in a situation where I was on my own where I allowed myself to get too cold walking, I wouldn't do it again because I remember the fact that I was actually cursing the ground I walked on at the time.
If you start to do that it's time to stop and wrap up and have something to eat.
It wouldn't be any different in cycling I sometimes think I'll grit my teeth here and keep going and eventually you need to stop, And feed and gear up.
NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy - Some day Soon I hope
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.
Pendodave
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Re: How light can you go?

Post by Pendodave »

mattheus wrote: 10 Jun 2021, 8:46am
Pendodave wrote: 9 Jun 2021, 3:27pm Just collecting some bits and bobs for a day out tomorrow.
Was slightly perturbed to discover that pump/lock/inner tube/puncture kit/tools and lights came to 1.3kg :oops:
Although its only a day trip, it's my full week tour bits. Thats as much as a small tent...
Maybe I'll have to remove the parts of the multitool i dont know how to use?
Are you racing? Will 1.3kg really ruin your day?
No. I wasn't racing. But i was doing 50 miles somewhere near llangollen, which included a number of steep enough pitches...
I mentioned it here, because I (maybe like a few others from a backpacking past) think of the "big 4" as tent, sleeping bag, pack and cookware. For cycling, my toolkit was as heavy any of these. I could spend a lot of money knocking 500g off some of those items, but probably a lot less streamlining my repair kit.

I passed a couple of tourists with 4 panniers on. They weren't racing, they also didn't look as if they were having a particularly great time...
Reducing weight carried where possible seems a one way bet to more enjoyment to me. Ymmv etc.
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