How light can you go?

[pjclinch]

Ridges still work well at some things

Would you care to list them? My own guess is that the ridge is a fundamentally strong (triangulated) structure, very simple in design and more tolerant of inexactitude. Anyone can construct a simple ridge tent (though I presume bending the right branches into a tunnel shape isn't rocket science either!).

I think you've got the ones I can think of. Simplicity is a good thing at times, and it's the simplicity that allows their use with improvised poles (most commonly trekking poles, not admittedly much use to a cyclist, but if you're in woodland you don't need any poles at all, you can just string between a couple of trees).

I do appreciate the space that a tunnel/dome provides, less appreciative of broken poles and structural weakness. I also wonder whether there is more actual material involved in a tunnel/dome and that this therefore makes them more dependent on lightweight materials.

Would depend how you measure "for a given level of usefulness" to compare to unit weight. A definite weakness of a ridge is there's little sitting space off-centre, and that can be an issue with multiple occupants but not to much for one. The floor space next to the wall might only be 20cm high, and while that's a problem to sit in it's useful space if you just want to lay your kit out. So if you're measuring against "sittable volume" tunnels probably have it, if you want floor space along side sittable volume the ridge (all else being equal) will proably take it.
One place where a tunnel is typically worse than a ridge is weight of pole for a given length of tent (and tunnels are similarly ahead of domes and in turn geodesics in that regard). On the other hand, pegging requirements (and thus weight of pegs) work the other way, with the simplest (single pole pyramid) needing the most pegging and a geodesic the least.

You choose, you lose...

Pete.

[willem jongman]

Do not forget that the floor is relatively heavy, so fairly useless floor surface is unnecessarily heavy. And as for breaking poles for tunnel tents: I have never had an Easton or DAC featherlight pole break. Cheaper ones, yes.

[pjclinch]

Do not forget that the floor is relatively heavy, so fairly useless floor surface is unnecessarily heavy. And as for breaking poles for tunnel tents: I have never had an Easton or DAC featherlight pole break. Cheaper ones, yes.

The Spacepacker gets round the heavy floor problem by having an inner that's just big enough combined with relatively big porches, so lots of area doesn't translate to lots of weight.
There's a downside of a face full of inner sleeping on your back, but it's never really bothered me (though I readily accept it put a lot of folk off it).

Pete.

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,
This is what the Tiger Paws tent was based on?
https://www.ldmountaincentre.com/campin ... 20Products

[pjclinch]

Hi,
This is what the Tiger Paws tent was based on?
https://www.ldmountaincentre.com/campin ... 20Products

I don't know what its exact provenance is, but "broad ridges" date back to at least the 80s when I recall an Ultimate with twin front poles to give a wider front than a plain ridge. Very few tents are genuinely original in layout and there's usually lots of precedents.

Pete.

[glucas]

Was following this thread earlier with great interest and thought I would come back and add to it.

I have my tour planned to the Shetland islands in mid July and have done a couple of dry runs with my bike - a Canyon Pathlite 4.

The bike weight is 12.75kg.

The total bike weight including panniers/handlebar bag/ etc, comes to approx 27kg.

An approximate breakdown is:

Clothes/waterproofs 3kg
Filled water bottles 2kg
Tent - Alpkit Ordos 3 Ultralightweight 1.7kg
Pannier rack 0.8kg
Panniers 2xOrtlieb back roller city 0.76kg each
Vango Ultralite Pro 300 Sleeping Bag 1.3kg
Power pack/phone 0.75kg
Nemo Tensor sleeping mat 0.5kg
Multi Tools/Allen Key/Tyre Levers/Puncture Kit/Pump/chain lube etc 0.5kg
Cable Bike Lock 0.5kg
Additional base Layer Foam mat (to protect against punctures) 0.2kg
Handlebar bag 0.2kg
Top tube bag 0.2kg
Ultra Light towel 0.2kg
First aid kit/insect repellent/toiletries 0.2 kg
Tent lamp 0.15 kg
Phone charger/light charger cables 0.1 kg
Head lamp/spare batteries 0.1 kg
Sea to summit aeros ultra light weight pillow 60g

Obviously it does not put me into the ultra ultra light weight category, but thanks to those on this forum, who were warning against sacrificing comfort - I have gone for a 1.3kg 3 season sleeping bag - which is pretty comfortable and a roomier tent Ordos 3 (2 to 3 person) - for only an additional 300g over it's 1 to 2 person Ordos 2 tent (edit: 1.7kg Ordos 3: 2 to 3 person tent v 1.4kg Ordos 2: 1 to 2 person tent).

As I said, I took the bike for a spin and was pleasantly surprised that it did not seem onerous at all - obviously touring conditions are different, factoring in winds and hills - but it was pretty easy to get up to 15 mph on a flat with this setup.

Food would add additional weight, obviously, but I would lose a few kilos pretty quickly.

Graham

[Jdsk]

Well done.

Are you going to cook?

Will you be camping away from a water supply? You might need more than 2 L capacity.

Jonathan

[glucas]

Thanks Jonathan.

I have decided not to cook. My thinking is that I will be fairly close to most food outlets and I am unsure about the scottish weather!

Perhaps on a more southerly tour, south of England or Europe I will take the Trangia next time.

[boblo]

<snip>
Tent - Ordos 3 Ultralightweight 1.7kg
Vango Ultralite Pro 300 Sleeping Bag 1.3kg
<snip>

Obviously it does not put me into the ultra ultra light weight category, but thanks to those on this forum, who have warning against sacrificing comfort - I have gone for a 3 season sleeping bag - which is pretty comfortable and a roomier tent (2 to 3 person) - for only an additional 300g.
<snip>

Not sure where your 'additional 300g' comes from? I use a PHD Minim bag at 0°C capacity/580g and a Laser Competition at ~900g for my light summer+ set up. That's at least 1.6kg less than your plan but many £££'s more...

It's a good idea to work from an accurate list and if you have kit options, quantify the effects. For example, panniers seem a given but I have 3 sorts and the option of front only, rear only or all 4. There's got to be over a 2kg range there and by taking less/more compact kit, you can do away with the fronts altogether which is 'free weightsaving'.

[Jdsk]

How about a cable as well as a lock?

And will the same spare batteries cover the head lamp, the tent lamp and the bike lights?

Jonathan

[glucas]

<snip>
Tent - Ordos 3 Ultralightweight 1.7kg
Vango Ultralite Pro 300 Sleeping Bag 1.3kg
<snip>

Obviously it does not put me into the ultra ultra light weight category, but thanks to those on this forum, who have warning against sacrificing comfort - I have gone for a 3 season sleeping bag - which is pretty comfortable and a roomier tent (2 to 3 person) - for only an additional 300g.
<snip>

Not sure where your 'additional 300g' comes from? I use a PHD Minim bag at 0°C capacity/580g and a Laser Competition at ~900g for my light summer+ set up. That's at least 1.6kg less than your plan but many £££'s more...

It's a good idea to work from an accurate list and if you have kit options, quantify the effects. For example, panniers seem a given but I have 3 sorts and the option of front only, rear only or all 4. There's got to be over a 2kg range there and by taking less/more compact kit, you can do away with the fronts altogether which is 'free weightsaving'.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Sorry, the additional 300g comes from the difference between the Ordos 2 (1.4kg) and Ordos 3 (1.7kg) tent. Did not explain myself very well.

Yes, I agree there are lighter options on the sleeping bag - but as you say the cost was a factor I will get a lighter sleeper bag for a European/Southern England tour next time!

I do have bikepacking bags - so yes, may take off the panniers next time.

[glucas]

How about a cable as well as a lock?

And will the same spare batteries cover the head lamp, the tent lamp and the bike lights?

Jonathan

Sorry, I meant bike lock cable - it is one entity..

The spare batteries covers the head lamp and tent lamp. Not bike lights - they must be charged.

[simonineaston]

You might need more than 2 L capacity.

I was alarmed to read somewhere once that military folks reckon on 4 litres minimum* per 24 hours, to cover the four basics, drinking, cooking, washing and cleaning. In old money, that's not far short of a gallon, ie by definition that volume of water that weighs ten pounds.
* if colder, more needed for extra cooking, if warmer more needed to stay hydrated - lose / lose, as it were.

[boblo]

There's a lot of water in Scotland. It's unlikely you'll need to carry a days supply. You'll know roughly where your days end which means you'll know when to fill up/replenish for your overnights.

I usually carry a foil bladder from a wine box (4l?) which is very light/compact and only used for overnight water. I get grumpy having to go and get more water before that first cup of tea in the morning...

[KTHSullivan]

The spare batteries covers the head lamp and tent lamp. Not bike lights - they must be charged.

You will probably get away without cycle lights and a headlamp that far North in July, unless you intend cycling in the wee small hours.

https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/uk/lerwick

That aside you may need them on your return to civilisation.

K