How light can you go?

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horizon
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Re: How light can you go?

Post by horizon »

pjclinch wrote: 16 Apr 2021, 3:43pm e a little heavier than, say, Kerlon 1,000 but (like Kerlon 1800) it's stronger.

But there was nothing wrong with the tents: more a case of everyone catching them up rather than Saunders getting left behind.

Pete.
Ironically the things I don't like about modern tents might be precisely those introduced by Saunders! I've had to adapt to modern tents in order to take advantage of what they offer.
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher
iandusud
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Re: How light can you go?

Post by iandusud »

leftpoole wrote: 16 Apr 2021, 9:59am Why not buy more modern more easy to use much lighter and larger tent?
Out of interest what would you suggest as a replacement?
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pjclinch
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Re: How light can you go?

Post by pjclinch »

iandusud wrote: 16 Apr 2021, 4:16pm
leftpoole wrote: 16 Apr 2021, 9:59am Why not buy more modern more easy to use much lighter and larger tent?
Out of interest what would you suggest as a replacement?
For a Spacepacker Plus...
Faced with a similar decision (though ours isn't the Plus, we really wanted bigger) and wanting to keep a porch each we went for a Hilleberg Kaitum 3, wait a wee bit and the lighter 3 season Helags version will be out. This won't save you any weight on what you have, but gives you quite a bit more usable volume inside which is nice if the weather is keeping you in.

But I suspect leftpoole thinks a Spacepacker is something other than what it actually is...

Pete.
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leftpoole
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Re: How light can you go?

Post by leftpoole »

pjclinch wrote: 16 Apr 2021, 3:50pm
leftpoole wrote: 16 Apr 2021, 2:20pm Try the struggle getting into and out of simply to pitch it! Then struggle to get out in the morning particularly if it’s raining. Try cooking in the porch.
I suspect you're not actually that familiar with the tents in question. They're easy to pitch, they're easy to strike, they're easy in and out, and there's masses of space in the (twin) porches to cook and get out of wet gear.

Not quite as clean up as my Hilles which are all-in-one rather than fly-first and have a specific design point of being able to be pitched by one person in a blizzard wearing mittens, but you can say that about just about most other tents, certainly anything "ultralight"

Pete.
Pete,
I had a Jetpacker and then a Spacepacker . Both good at the time. But, as you, time passes, age catches up, tents get better and easier to pitch as you mentioned all in one. Saunders were very good at the time.
I’ve only got one tent now! A Hilleberg Niak.
If tye person who has been using a Basepacker or whatever for 30 years, then sure it’s worn out by now? I think they should watch a few Hilleberg YouTube videos of people pitching tents, or even Force Ten (Vango)
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Re: How light can you go?

Post by Jdsk »

leftpoole wrote: 16 Apr 2021, 5:12pmIf tye person who has been using a Basepacker or whatever for 30 years, then sure it’s worn out by now?
Ours isn't.

leftpoole wrote: 16 Apr 2021, 5:12pmI think they should watch a few Hilleberg YouTube videos of people pitching tents, or even Force Ten (Vango)
What advantages in pitching should I look out for, please?

Thanks

Jonathan
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Re: How light can you go?

Post by pjclinch »

leftpoole wrote:
Pete,
I had a Jetpacker and then a Spacepacker . Both good at the time. But, as you, time passes, age catches up, tents get better and easier to pitch as you mentioned all in one. Saunders were very good at the time.
I’ve only got one tent now! A Hilleberg Niak.
If tye person who has been using a Basepacker or whatever for 30 years, then sure it’s worn out by now? I think they should watch a few Hilleberg YouTube videos of people pitching tents, or even Force Ten (Vango)
A JetPacker is a whole different kettle of fish and I think warrants much of your criticism, but what about a Spacepacker is difficult to pitch, or hard to get in to/out of? How is it hard to cook in the porch (and don't forget the Plus is quite a bit bigger)?

I've got a Tarra and a Kaitum too so I know what's involved pitching a Hille, but I don't see that makes my Spacepacker difficult. It certainly doesn't have me feeling a need to replace it.

My Spacepacker is "only" 24 years, but is fine. My dad's Plus is about 30... and is fine.

Not keen on the Niak myself, it only has one porch and I prefer two. Easier to use, however old.

Pete.
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iandusud
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Re: How light can you go?

Post by iandusud »

Post deleted.
Last edited by iandusud on 17 Apr 2021, 6:44am, edited 2 times in total.
willem jongman
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Re: How light can you go?

Post by willem jongman »

I would not replace a tent that is still OK and that you like. However, I am a bit surprised that the fabric has still not disintegrated from UV light, but that is a different matter. Think about a modern tent when you need one.

I think you are right that modern mattresses are desirable, and my personal preference is for the Neoairs (my Exped mattresses have been less than reliable). They are very light and compact, and yet extremely comfortable, and the warmer models insulate well. Treat yourself to the battery pump.

With all the other things I feel that it pays to be ruthless with weight and volume. Just weigh all your clothing, and you will find that one shirt weighs twice as much as another and so on.

I am in my late sixties and much of my original camping gear dated back fourty years or even more, so when it finally wore out and when we also started camping with children we replaced almost all of it, each year a part of all the kit that needed replacement most. Not infrequently the modern gear was much lighter and far more convenient, but we only had money for so much. By now we have quite a collection of modern lightweight gear for different conditions, and it is indeed much lighter. Cycle camping gear is now 12-15 kg for each of us, and I am sure it could be even lighter if we wanted to, but I believe that to reduce the weight from where we are now would be expensive and at least as importantly would involve a quite considerable loss in comfort. But with what we have now we are completely comfortable, and in all sorts of weather, though maybe not in the middle of Winter.
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Re: How light can you go?

Post by Bmblbzzz »

willem jongman wrote: 16 Apr 2021, 9:22pm Think about a modern tent when you need one.
Yup.
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Re: How light can you go?

Post by pjclinch »

iandusud wrote: 16 Apr 2021, 7:29pm You originally suggested that I should replace the Spacepacker Plus with something bigger and lighter...
I think you have the wrong man. I never suggested you replace it at all, that was leftpoole. I think the Spacepacker (and SP+) are great tents irrespective of date, leftpoole seems to disagree.

I have added a Kaitum 3 to my tent selection to do stuff that my Spacepacker doesn't do so well, not to replace it.

Pete.
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Re: How light can you go?

Post by PDQ Mobile »

I had a Saunders tent.
(Replacing a strong but heavy cotton Vango Force 10)
The Saunders was only a couple of years old (it was early 90s) when the stitching around the pole eye literally exploded one very wild November night by the shores of Loch Shiel.
Great gusts roaring down from the hills.
I spent most of the rest of the night trying to repair it with needle and thread though a tiny opening as it was absolutely lashing with rain.
Memorable but not what I had planned and it spoiled the trip really.
We were headed into the wild fastness to the S.
Put me off Saunders tents.

I replaced it with an Ultimate Tramp 2, which remains my tent today.
A fine tent with a rather lightweight and now no longer waterproof groundsheet. But it has seen a good deal of use
iandusud
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Re: How light can you go?

Post by iandusud »

pjclinch wrote: 16 Apr 2021, 10:12pm
iandusud wrote: 16 Apr 2021, 7:29pm You originally suggested that I should replace the Spacepacker Plus with something bigger and lighter...
I think you have the wrong man. I never suggested you replace it at all, that was leftpoole. I think the Spacepacker (and SP+) are great tents irrespective of date, leftpoole seems to disagree.

I have added a Kaitum 3 to my tent selection to do stuff that my Spacepacker doesn't do so well, not to replace it.

Pete.
Whoops, sorry Pete I replied to the wrong post. Too much quoting going on here. :)
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horizon
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Re: How light can you go?

Post by horizon »

Well the thread inspired me to get the Jetpacker down from the shelf and take a look. Still looks brand new. I know I used it because it still has string tied to the rubbers where I tied it to rocks in a Spanish campsite that only had hard standing ..

It looks great and indeed well made (PDQ's comments notwithstanding - incidentally my brother's meeting with Robert Saunders IIRR was to sort out a problem with a tent ...). I know it's small and a ridge tent (it does have an A pole entrance though), it should stand up better in a storm than a tunnel. I recall using it quite happily. All it neeeds really is a porch!

This tent replaced a Aquatite Nomad 1 with cotton inner and which I had used for years and really liked. What I didn't like about the Saunders was the inner material (man-made, not sure which) and the flap-down inner door (in other words what you get on a modern tent :( ).

I've decided to take it on a run when weather and rules allow!
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher
iandusud
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Re: How light can you go?

Post by iandusud »

leftpoole wrote: 16 Apr 2021, 9:59am Why not buy more modern more easy to use much lighter and larger tent?
As for easier to use I can't comment on other more modern tents but on the SP+ it is very easy to pitch and only takes a few minutes. You can get the flysheet up in a couple of minutes which has the advantage over my previous tent that if it's raining once the fly is up you can get the inner tent in dry, along with yourself.

You originally suggested that I should replace the Spacepacker Plus with something bigger and much lighter. Of the tents you have suggested whilst both being bigger the one at over £800 is 50% heavier and the one only 20% heavier is over £1000. So neither of these options are bigger and lighter and would represent a big investment. Looking at the Hilleberg website at their two man tents to give a fairer comparison Helags 2 is a comparable size to the Spacepacker Plus but is still heavier. Admittedly it is roomier in the sleeping compartment, that is there is better head clearance when lying down but I'm not convinced that would be worth paying nearly £1000 for. Also the vestibule area is considerably smaller, which is one of the best points of the Spacepacker design. I also don't see how it is any easier to get in or out of than the Spacepacker but maybe I'm missing something. At those sort of prices I would hope that their tents are durable and would also give 30 years + usage. I'd be very interested in recommendations of a tent that is both bigger and lighter than the Spacepacker simply in order to make a comparison.
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Re: How light can you go?

Post by pjclinch »

Ironically given the "just look at Hilleberg" stuff, Hilleberg are not big on "ultralightlight", indeed they go out of their way to say they're not.
While in their original day Spacepackers were cutting edge ultralight, these days the trend that Saunders started has been followed to the point that an 80s/90s/00s Saunders is in the "reasonably light, reasonably tough" sector, not actually that different to a Hille red/yellow label, and certainly not left behind like cotton bell tents for backpacking.

If you're looking for bigger and lighter than a Spacepacker Plus you'll need to look at a firm going deliberately very light, and that entails other compromises (like very thin, condensation prone floors, rather light zips needing more care, most typically an inner-first pitch). And given how big the porches on a SP are you'll probably lose something there.
Maybe a Big Agnes Copper Spur HV UL3, for example, but I'd personally not look to fix something that ain't broke.

Pete.
Often seen riding a bike around Dundee...
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