How light can you go?

Specifically for cycle touring subjects & questions
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leftpoole
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Re: How light can you go?

Post by leftpoole »

iandusud wrote: 16 Apr 2021, 8:10am
Vorpal wrote: 14 Apr 2021, 3:07pm I have to admit that I'm too fond of comfort to engage in extreme weight-cutting. I'll happily carry a 2 kg tent to have a bit more room. On the other hand, I usually carry a plastic plate, and never use it because I eat out of the pan. :lol:
This is an interesting and pertinent point for me as I consider our camping equipment. My wife and I last went cycle camping 30 years ago. In between we have camped every year and have kept up the cycling. Three years ago we got a tandem and love it and have holidayed the last three years on it using B&B or rented accommodation as a centre. This year we're planning on touring with the tent again and I'm reviewing our equipment. We still have our Saunders Spacepacker Plus which has had regular use over the years and our down sleeping bags. However our bodies are older an appreciate a bit more comfort these days. I will be buying inflatable air mattresses to replace our ancient Thermarest mats but I'm also considering buying some folding stools. These will add 1kg to the load but I consider that worth it to not have to sit on the ground. The danger of course is everything that you add saying it only another x grams add up!
I am in awe of people who have managed to keep any Saunders tent going for so long!
Why?
What is the point?
Why not buy more modern more easy to use much lighter and larger tent?

Just me thinking 'out loud'!
I suspect PJClinch might be able to make some kind of response......
Jdsk
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Re: How light can you go?

Post by Jdsk »

leftpoole wrote: 16 Apr 2021, 9:59am
iandusud wrote: 16 Apr 2021, 8:10am We still have our Saunders Spacepacker Plus which has had regular use over the years...
I am in awe of people who have managed to keep any Saunders tent going for so long!
Why?
What is the point?
Why not buy more modern more easy to use much lighter and larger tent?
We're happy with our late 70s Base Packer. It does what we ask of it. How would anything newer be easier to use?

Thanks

Jonathan
leftpoole
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Re: How light can you go?

Post by leftpoole »

Jdsk wrote: 16 Apr 2021, 10:23am
leftpoole wrote: 16 Apr 2021, 9:59am
iandusud wrote: 16 Apr 2021, 8:10am We still have our Saunders Spacepacker Plus which has had regular use over the years...
I am in awe of people who have managed to keep any Saunders tent going for so long!
Why?
What is the point?
Why not buy more modern more easy to use much lighter and larger tent?
We're happy with our late 70s Base Packer. It does what we ask of it. How would anything newer be easier to use?

Thanks

Jonathan
How? Simply read and absorbe anything on a website such as Hilleberg.
Saunders are very old hat out of date. At the time they came into existence were indeed, very good, but now.......
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horizon
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Re: How light can you go?

Post by horizon »

Jdsk wrote: 16 Apr 2021, 10:23am
leftpoole wrote: 16 Apr 2021, 9:59am
iandusud wrote: 16 Apr 2021, 8:10am We still have our Saunders Spacepacker Plus which has had regular use over the years...
I am in awe of people who have managed to keep any Saunders tent going for so long!
Why?
What is the point?
Why not buy more modern more easy to use much lighter and larger tent?
We're happy with our late 70s Base Packer. It does what we ask of it. How would anything newer be easier to use?

Thanks

Jonathan
AFAIK (without checking), Robert Saunders missed out on the dome and tunnel revolution - they were early pioneers with lightweight man-made material. I've a perfectly functional Jetpacker but now use a Vango Helix 100 (hardly top stuff) in preference. Robert Saunders is definitely in the hall of fame but there might have been a few mishaps (my brother met him once FWIW!). Compared to what a large company like Vango can do, his smaller operation was a minor miracle. AFAIK he is now dead and his company is no more but any confirmation of the latter would be appreciated.
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher
Bmblbzzz
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Re: How light can you go?

Post by Bmblbzzz »

I've never had or used a Saunders tent, but if you've got a tent, or anything, that you've been using and enjoying using for 30 years and still does the job you require of it, why change? It's better, for yourself and everyone, to carry on using what you have rather than change just because it's old. Consumerism for consumerism's sake is a long term mistake.
Jdsk
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Re: How light can you go?

Post by Jdsk »

leftpoole wrote: 16 Apr 2021, 10:43am
Jdsk wrote: 16 Apr 2021, 10:23am
leftpoole wrote: 16 Apr 2021, 9:59am I am in awe of people who have managed to keep any Saunders tent going for so long!
Why?
What is the point?
Why not buy more modern more easy to use much lighter and larger tent?
We're happy with our late 70s Base Packer. It does what we ask of it. How would anything newer be easier to use?
How? Simply read and absorbe anything on a website such as Hilleberg.
Saunders are very old hat out of date. At the time they came into existence were indeed, very good, but now.......
I couldn't care less if anyone thinks that it's "out of date" or "old hat". How would anything newer be easier to use, please?

Thanks

Jonathan
Vorpal
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Re: How light can you go?

Post by Vorpal »

In 2007, The Guardian listed the Space Packer as
expert's choice
even though it was 22 years 'out of date'.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
mattheus
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Re: How light can you go?

Post by mattheus »

Bmblbzzz wrote: 16 Apr 2021, 10:52am I've never had or used a Saunders tent, but if you've got a tent, or anything, that you've been using and enjoying using for 30 years and still does the job you require of it, why change? It's better, for yourself and everyone, to carry on using what you have rather than change just because it's old. Consumerism for consumerism's sake is a long term mistake.
Well said.

(I know nothing about this tent, but if it's working for someone, I imagine it will work for them this summer too!)
iandusud
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Re: How light can you go?

Post by iandusud »

leftpoole wrote: 16 Apr 2021, 9:59am
iandusud wrote: 16 Apr 2021, 8:10am
Vorpal wrote: 14 Apr 2021, 3:07pm I have to admit that I'm too fond of comfort to engage in extreme weight-cutting. I'll happily carry a 2 kg tent to have a bit more room. On the other hand, I usually carry a plastic plate, and never use it because I eat out of the pan. :lol:
This is an interesting and pertinent point for me as I consider our camping equipment. My wife and I last went cycle camping 30 years ago. In between we have camped every year and have kept up the cycling. Three years ago we got a tandem and love it and have holidayed the last three years on it using B&B or rented accommodation as a centre. This year we're planning on touring with the tent again and I'm reviewing our equipment. We still have our Saunders Spacepacker Plus which has had regular use over the years and our down sleeping bags. However our bodies are older an appreciate a bit more comfort these days. I will be buying inflatable air mattresses to replace our ancient Thermarest mats but I'm also considering buying some folding stools. These will add 1kg to the load but I consider that worth it to not have to sit on the ground. The danger of course is everything that you add saying it only another x grams add up!
I am in awe of people who have managed to keep any Saunders tent going for so long!
Why?
What is the point?
Why not buy more modern more easy to use much lighter and larger tent?

Just me thinking 'out loud'!
I suspect PJClinch might be able to make some kind of response......
As others have said why replace anything that does it's job well. I'm happy to replace things as they wear out or if they no longer meet the need but I'm very opposed to the wastage of natural resources and the carbon footprint associated with modern consumerism. As for weight and size I think the Spacepacker plus takes some beating even with modern tents bearing in mind the two large bell ends. As for keeping it going I haven't done anything to keep it going. It hasn't ever needed any repairs despite being used most summers for at least 2 weeks.
leftpoole
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Re: How light can you go?

Post by leftpoole »

Try the struggle getting into and out of simply to pitch it! Then struggle to get out in the morning particularly if it’s raining. Try cooking in the porch.
In fact try looking at newer more sensible options.
I Alfred if something works, that it’s good to keep using it, but the Saunders tents are well past decent use by date even if only for the weight , quality and ease of pitch.
Modern quality tents are fabulous to use.
Modern tents cost. Modern tent from cheap outlets are a big improvement.
All I’m trying to put across, is that the tent being used by the particular person, is a struggle to use.
It’s gas it’s life hasn’t it?
Jdsk
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Re: How light can you go?

Post by Jdsk »

leftpoole wrote: 16 Apr 2021, 2:20pm... but the Saunders tents are well past decent use by date even if only for the weight , quality and ease of pitch.
How would a more modern tent be easier to pitch than our Base Packer, please?

Thanks

Jonathan
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pjclinch
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Re: How light can you go?

Post by pjclinch »

I still use my Spacepacker because it's still a good tent. 1.8 Kg, enough room (just!) for 2, 2 large porches (and those still usefully larger than anything else about today in a similar tent) and it's taken whatever the weather has thrown at it. Nothing else I can see quite hits its sweet spot for what I want in a solo tent quite well enough to replace what is very much an old friend (same goes for my old Lowe rucksack, just because it's over 30 years old doesn't make it bad).

Along with Hilleberg in Sweden, Saunders were one of the first adopters of silicone elastomer coatings and while incremental developments have been made, such as applying to even finer nylons, there's nothing really "out of date" about the fly. Might be a little heavier than, say, Kerlon 1,000 but (like Kerlon 1800) it's stronger.

Saunders also introduced the first non-dreadnought groundsheets, and while you can get thinner and lighter today that isn't necessarily better. I think the Spacepacker groundsheet is at a sweet-spot in the compromise between light and tough.

The Spacepacker was the very first transverse single hoop. Looking at the current preferred alternative with that layout, which is an Akto-a-like, the "modern" one (dating back about 25 years) uses fewer pegs and the prop-poles at the inner ends give you more face-space in the inner lying down, but that's about it. In the other direction, the Spacepacker has twin porches with two doors in each so it opens up for better through-venting, and a cleaner aerodynamic profile if aligned to the wind than the Akto which is handy in a big blow.

It ain't broke and doesn't need fixing, why fix it?

RS died in 2012, see http://www.christownsendoutdoors.com/20 ... maker.html and the company had wound down a little before that. But there was nothing wrong with the tents: more a case of everyone catching them up rather than Saunders getting left behind.

Pete.
Often seen riding a bike around Dundee...
Bmblbzzz
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Re: How light can you go?

Post by Bmblbzzz »

leftpoole wrote: 16 Apr 2021, 2:20pm Try the struggle getting into and out of simply to pitch it! Then struggle to get out in the morning particularly if it’s raining. Try cooking in the porch.
In fact try looking at newer more sensible options.
I Alfred if something works, that it’s good to keep using it, but the Saunders tents are well past decent use by date even if only for the weight , quality and ease of pitch.
Modern quality tents are fabulous to use.
Modern tents cost. Modern tent from cheap outlets are a big improvement.
All I’m trying to put across, is that the tent being used by the particular person, is a struggle to use.
It’s gas it’s life hasn’t it?
Those would be pertinent comments if we were talking about a new tent for someone. But we're talking about a tent that someone (and their wife) has been using for three decades. Presumably they don't find it a struggle, or if they ever did, they've worked out how to do it by now.

Suitable recommendations to someone looking for a new lightweight tent (or bike or reverse-torque hyperthrust widget) need not apply to someone satisfied with what they already have.
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pjclinch
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Re: How light can you go?

Post by pjclinch »

leftpoole wrote: 16 Apr 2021, 2:20pm Try the struggle getting into and out of simply to pitch it! Then struggle to get out in the morning particularly if it’s raining. Try cooking in the porch.
I suspect you're not actually that familiar with the tents in question. They're easy to pitch, they're easy to strike, they're easy in and out, and there's masses of space in the (twin) porches to cook and get out of wet gear.

Not quite as clean up as my Hilles which are all-in-one rather than fly-first and have a specific design point of being able to be pitched by one person in a blizzard wearing mittens, but you can say that about just about most other tents, certainly anything "ultralight"

Pete.
Often seen riding a bike around Dundee...
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pjclinch
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Re: How light can you go?

Post by pjclinch »

Bmblbzzz wrote: 16 Apr 2021, 3:46pm Those would be pertinent comments if we were talking about a new tent for someone. But we're talking about a tent that someone (and their wife) has been using for three decades. Presumably they don't find it a struggle, or if they ever did, they've worked out how to do it by now.

Suitable recommendations to someone looking for a new lightweight tent (or bike or reverse-torque hyperthrust widget) need not apply to someone satisfied with what they already have.
Very much this. Or you'd have to replace everything you had every three or four years (if you believe the brochures, probably every 6 months to a year!).

One of the things I particularly like about my old gear is I bought it to last my for years, and it has lasted for years. Only if the ground has really shifted (e.g., LED lighting, lightweight waterproofs) should one feel the need to consign working gear to the nostalgia cupboard.

Pete.
Often seen riding a bike around Dundee...
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