How light can you go?

Specifically for cycle touring subjects & questions
User avatar
matt2matt2002
Posts: 1126
Joined: 25 Oct 2009, 7:45pm
Location: Aberdeen Scotland UK

Re: How light can you go?

Post by matt2matt2002 »

nsew wrote:If I were to ever use a fashionable “lightweight” tent again (previously TN Laser) and I won’t, I would apply this before the journey https://www.nikwax.com/en-gb/products/t ... olarproof/ and always use in conjunction with a footprint.


I think I should treat my new Hubba Hubba to this.
May I ask your experience / opinion?
2017 Ethiopia.5 weeks.
2018 Marrakech 2 weeks.
2023 Thailand 8 weeks.
Always on a Thorn Raven/Rohloff hub.
User avatar
pjclinch
Posts: 5469
Joined: 29 Oct 2007, 2:32pm
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Contact:

Re: How light can you go?

Post by pjclinch »

matt2matt2002 wrote:
nsew wrote:If I were to ever use a fashionable “lightweight” tent again (previously TN Laser) and I won’t, I would apply this before the journey https://www.nikwax.com/en-gb/products/t ... olarproof/ and always use in conjunction with a footprint.


I think I should treat my new Hubba Hubba to this.
May I ask your experience / opinion?


Won't do it any harm, though the outside of the HH has (IIRC) a silicone coat which gives quite a bit of protection from UV.

But it also depends a lot on your usage. I get the impression that nsew is doing fairly protracted expeditions, and a month of summer touring for someone doing that can be a few years of odd weekends for someone else. Also, a base-camp is far more UV intense than arrive late, leave early mobile pitching, and so on.

Pete.
Often seen riding a bike around Dundee...
nsew
Posts: 1006
Joined: 14 Dec 2017, 12:38pm

Re: How light can you go?

Post by nsew »

pjclinch wrote:
matt2matt2002 wrote:
nsew wrote:If I were to ever use a fashionable “lightweight” tent again (previously TN Laser) and I won’t, I would apply this before the journey https://www.nikwax.com/en-gb/products/t ... olarproof/ and always use in conjunction with a footprint.


I think I should treat my new Hubba Hubba to this.
May I ask your experience / opinion?


Won't do it any harm, though the outside of the HH has (IIRC) a silicone coat which gives quite a bit of protection from UV.

But it also depends a lot on your usage. I get the impression that nsew is doing fairly protracted expeditions, and a month of summer touring for someone doing that can be a few years of odd weekends for someone else. Also, a base-camp is far more UV intense than arrive late, leave early mobile pitching, and so on.

Pete.


Pretty much that. UV light is the killer, so either be packed up before 10am or don’t leave up on med to high UV days. Especially so at increased elevations. MSR recently switched from Durashield to XTreme Shield and have made a big song and dance about it. They were likely having issues with that shield and the lightweight fabrics.
leftpoole
Posts: 1492
Joined: 12 Feb 2007, 9:31am
Location: Account closing 31st July '22

Re: How light can you go?

Post by leftpoole »

A further comment.
'Lightweight' usually (always) means small-in fact tiny.
Tiny is difficult to use. Backache. Lack of sleep. Uncomfortable. Cold. Wet? But mainly lightweight means expensive and no room to swing the proverbial cat. No room to cook breakfast (or dinner) and certainly no room to dress or clean properly.
Those days were endured and now Camping is certainly more pleasurable and although heavier and slightly more bulky, much more to be enjoyed.
User avatar
pjclinch
Posts: 5469
Joined: 29 Oct 2007, 2:32pm
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Contact:

Re: How light can you go?

Post by pjclinch »

leftpoole wrote:A further comment.
'Lightweight' usually (always) means small-in fact tiny.
Tiny is difficult to use. Backache. Lack of sleep. Uncomfortable. Cold. Wet? But mainly lightweight means expensive and no room to swing the proverbial cat. No room to cook breakfast (or dinner) and certainly no room to dress or clean properly.
Those days were endured and now Camping is certainly more pleasurable and although heavier and slightly more bulky, much more to be enjoyed.


I think it's worth drawing a distinction between "lightweight" and "lowest possible weight" here. You can get reasonably lightweight and comfortably spacious with generous cat-rotation potential. Premium lightweight materials are expensive, but you do get something tangible for your money, and there's nothing stopping their use in a good size of shelter.

Also, comfort in use depends on the use. If you ride 150 miles every day, eat in a pub and fall asleep in 30 seconds with breakfast the next day at a cafe then you really don't need much more than something to keep the rain/beasties off. If the camping time is to some degree an end in itself with leisurely meals cooked in-house the tent needs to do more, so you'd expect it to weigh and bulk more.

Pete.
Often seen riding a bike around Dundee...
User avatar
foxyrider
Posts: 6044
Joined: 29 Aug 2011, 10:25am
Location: Sheffield, South Yorkshire

Re: How light can you go?

Post by foxyrider »

leftpoole wrote:A further comment.
'Lightweight' usually (always) means small-in fact tiny.
Tiny is difficult to use. Backache. Lack of sleep. Uncomfortable. Cold. Wet? But mainly lightweight means expensive and no room to swing the proverbial cat. No room to cook breakfast (or dinner) and certainly no room to dress or clean properly.
Those days were endured and now Camping is certainly more pleasurable and although heavier and slightly more bulky, much more to be enjoyed.

Think you've been subject to some poor kit there! :wink:
Convention? what's that then?
Airnimal Chameleon touring, Orbit Pro hack, Orbit Photon audax, Focus Mares AX tour, Peugeot Carbon sportive, Owen Blower vintage race - all running Tulio's finest!
pwa
Posts: 17366
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: How light can you go?

Post by pwa »

foxyrider wrote:
leftpoole wrote:A further comment.
'Lightweight' usually (always) means small-in fact tiny.
Tiny is difficult to use. Backache. Lack of sleep. Uncomfortable. Cold. Wet? But mainly lightweight means expensive and no room to swing the proverbial cat. No room to cook breakfast (or dinner) and certainly no room to dress or clean properly.
Those days were endured and now Camping is certainly more pleasurable and although heavier and slightly more bulky, much more to be enjoyed.

Think you've been subject to some poor kit there! :wink:

Some people can happily sleep in a torpedo shape, while others only sleep well if they can sprawl. I fall into the latter camp. Me and the Missus would always choose a lightweight three or four person tent in preference to a two person tent, and just take the weight penalty as the price of being able to sprawl. Even our Hilleberg Nallo 4 GT, which wasn't cheap, weighs a good bit more than a lightweight 2 person tent.
User avatar
foxyrider
Posts: 6044
Joined: 29 Aug 2011, 10:25am
Location: Sheffield, South Yorkshire

Re: How light can you go?

Post by foxyrider »

pwa wrote:
foxyrider wrote:
leftpoole wrote:A further comment.
'Lightweight' usually (always) means small-in fact tiny.
Tiny is difficult to use. Backache. Lack of sleep. Uncomfortable. Cold. Wet? But mainly lightweight means expensive and no room to swing the proverbial cat. No room to cook breakfast (or dinner) and certainly no room to dress or clean properly.
Those days were endured and now Camping is certainly more pleasurable and although heavier and slightly more bulky, much more to be enjoyed.

Think you've been subject to some poor kit there! :wink:

Some people can happily sleep in a torpedo shape, while others only sleep well if they can sprawl. I fall into the latter camp. Me and the Missus would always choose a lightweight three or four person tent in preference to a two person tent, and just take the weight penalty as the price of being able to sprawl. Even our Hilleberg Nallo 4 GT, which wasn't cheap, weighs a good bit more than a lightweight 2 person tent.


hate coffin tents myself, so i use a 2man that i can sit up in and 'sprawl' - doesn't mean it has to weigh a ton tho or suffer from leaks or other discomforts!
Convention? what's that then?
Airnimal Chameleon touring, Orbit Pro hack, Orbit Photon audax, Focus Mares AX tour, Peugeot Carbon sportive, Owen Blower vintage race - all running Tulio's finest!
pwa
Posts: 17366
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: How light can you go?

Post by pwa »

foxyrider wrote:..............hate coffin tents myself, so i use a 2man that i can sit up in and 'sprawl' - doesn't mean it has to weigh a ton tho or suffer from leaks or other discomforts!

No, but our larger Nallo weighs more than a smaller Nallo that is notionally for two people. So we accept carrying a bit more material, whilst having a good quality tent that weighs no more than it needs to for the volume we want. We strike a balance.
User avatar
pjclinch
Posts: 5469
Joined: 29 Oct 2007, 2:32pm
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Contact:

Re: How light can you go?

Post by pjclinch »

These reinforce that different folks have different ideas of "lightweight".

Our comfortably spacious 3 person/2 porch tent for 2 comes in at a little over 3 Kg, which I would say is pretty light for the space, strength and ease-of-use on offer, but a dedicated gramme-counting camping minimalist would probably be horrified.

In summary, if all else is equal then lighter is better. But all else tends not to be equal.

Pete.
Often seen riding a bike around Dundee...
Pendodave
Posts: 531
Joined: 3 Jun 2020, 8:27am

Re: How light can you go?

Post by Pendodave »

The type of trip being undertaken often has implications for the weight/comfort of kit that can be used.
I'm just whiling away the hours rigging up an old MTB for bikepacking. While I would prefer air&normal bnbs for my overnight stops, there is likely to be a shortage of these this early summer, so being able to overnight independently might well be necessary when putting a multi day trip together.
On a tarmac tour, I'd be happy carrying extra weight and using panniers. On off-road trips, keeping a narrow profile, keeping weight reasonably high to avoid branches/rocks, keeping weight 'unsprung' off the rear axle means that compact, light luggage is important, however uncomfortable it might be.
leftpoole
Posts: 1492
Joined: 12 Feb 2007, 9:31am
Location: Account closing 31st July '22

Re: How light can you go?

Post by leftpoole »

I have owned and used all types and brands of tents and other equipment.
Regarding tent-I now own only one (!) and it suits me perfectly. It is a Hilleberg Niak.
I am gently gradually going through my other equipment to thin or make anorexic the total quantity.
I still have a few stoves but 99% of the time I use either Trangia mini or Trangia 27/2 HA Ul.
I still have two sleeping mats. A standard lighter weight Thermarest and a Neoair.
Two sleeping bags, both down filled. A RAB Winter and a F10 Catalyst 400.
I still have a few bikes and a couple of frames plus all the parts to build them.
After a few years moving house twice and selling I am still left with quite a lot! Memo to myself 'sell-do not buy!
Getting back to weight. It is as others have said, always a compromise. Comfort is in my opinion most important and if you can 'carry' the load, then you should be fine.
leftpoole
Posts: 1492
Joined: 12 Feb 2007, 9:31am
Location: Account closing 31st July '22

Re: How light can you go?

Post by leftpoole »

foxyrider wrote:
leftpoole wrote:A further comment.
'Lightweight' usually (always) means small-in fact tiny.
Tiny is difficult to use. Backache. Lack of sleep. Uncomfortable. Cold. Wet? But mainly lightweight means expensive and no room to swing the proverbial cat. No room to cook breakfast (or dinner) and certainly no room to dress or clean properly.
Those days were endured and now Camping is certainly more pleasurable and although heavier and slightly more bulky, much more to be enjoyed.

Think you've been subject to some poor kit there! :wink:


No not really poor, just small. Vaude Power Lizard, Terra Nova Solar, Hilleberg Akto, Hilleberg Soulo. All perfectly good and not cheap, but too small.
Now I use a Hilleberg but a Niak. Generous space and still very light.
nsew
Posts: 1006
Joined: 14 Dec 2017, 12:38pm

Re: How light can you go?

Post by nsew »

I purchased a Niak and consider it a significant comfort improvement over the Unna as the walls are steeper and there’s a few cm’s more floor width. There’s about a 20% loss in fabric durability which should translate to getting 80% of the lifetime wear of the Unna which performed heroically for 5 years of touring (~36 months of use). It’s quicker to pitch than the Unna due to the loss of the small canopy but looses the upper vent as a result. I’m looking forward to having the use of the vestibule for added comfort space when rained out / lounging / knocking up breakfast. With the footprint it weighs in at 1.95kg, a reduction of 550g over the Unna + footprint. I won’t use with a mesh inner so should be a little warmer than the Unna even with the scalloped fly. A mesh inner is punishing in the shoulder seasons.
Attachments
AF2D1239-486F-4171-AA66-80192375D9DA.jpeg
Aquila
Posts: 55
Joined: 19 Jan 2019, 11:02am

Re: How light can you go?

Post by Aquila »

Am I the only one that picks up my bike at the start of a tour and says to myself "that'll dee" :?
Post Reply