Trangia - fuel question

[glucas]

Hi,

I am a complete beginner to bike camping. I have ordered a Trangia 27-5 ul with gas burner.

What is the best fuel to take in terms of bike touring? A trangia fuel bottle or gas cartridge? And how long does it last?

Are there any advantages/disadvantages to taking either? General availability? Weight etc?

Would appreciate any response. Thank You

Graham

[KTHSullivan]

Several answers:

Meths burners have no moving parts as a consequence not a lot to go wrong.
Meths burners are quiet.
Meths tends to cover the pans with soot, unless careful.
Meths burners do not lend themselves to fine cooking control (simmering)
I am able to boil 500ml of water with 30ml of meths. (Trangia 27)
Due to energy density (calorific value) Meths burners can be (appear) slow.

Gas has a higher energy density as a consequence it takes less of it to heat a given amount of water.
Screw on gas cartridges may be less readily available dependent where one is in the world, although it is possible to get convertors for the Camping Gaz puncture type cartridges.
Gas can loose performance dependent upon ambient temperature and gas blend.
Gas does not generate soot (unless something is seriously adrift).
Performance of gas cartridges can taper off if they are near empty.
In heavy weather a gas flame will blow out before a Meths one.

Personally I prefer Meths. First thing out of the pannier/backpack at camp is the stove, brew on, then the tent etc goes up.

Obviously other preferences are available.

[glucas]

Thanks KTHSullivan.

Doing some maths - I assume that if one carries a 300ml cannister and you use 30ml each time, one would expect a 300ml cannister to last maybe 3 or 4 days, again, assuming it was used morning and night.

Does gas last any longer?

I am trying to get a grip on what is needed for a 10+ day trip.

[KTHSullivan]

I have not used a gas camping stove for many years so I can't really pass comment on their fuel efficiency but I do understand that their usefulness has improved over the years; however I am sure someone will jump in soon.

Meths is readily available in most pharmacists/hardware/camping shops, especially in tourist areas, normally in half litre plastic bottles.

If you are proposing going into the "whoop Whoop" that is obviously a different kettle of fish, as you would also be carrying 10 days of food + a couple of days spare in case of emergencies.

Also it depends if you are solo, or travelling with company. The fuel demand on a Trangia is more or less the same for two as it is for a solo camper.

Are going to cook or just eat freeze dried etc.

Try cooking a few meals at home and see what the fuel consumption is for both fuels as a comparison. Weight the gas cartridge before and after use to work out how much you need.

K

[glucas]

Thanks for the heads up K. I will cook something with gas and then meths and see what the consumption is. My daughter is doing a dofe expedition next month so I need to get up to speed anyway to show her!

[Jdsk]

Great gear. Ours is ≥ 30y old and I'm expecting it so see us out.

Lots on this in the archives.

Good points above. Really wise to do the experiments.

What is the best fuel to take in terms of bike touring? A trangia fuel bottle or gas cannsiter?

We use a dedicated fuel bottle that has its own cage. It never goes inside a pannier. Ours is a SIGG, but I don't think that it's available any more: there's a recent thread on this.

I am trying to get a grip on what is needed for a 10+ day trip.

A bit more information, please: how many meals per day for how many people?

Weight etc?

NB you don't have to take all of the pans with you on every trip!

General availability?

Availability of alcohol fuel is excellent, but you need to know the local names and the sorts of places where it's sold... this might not be obvious. I hope that someone can comment on availability for gas...

Jonathan (25K and only use alcohol)

[Tigerbiten]

One trick is if you add a little water to the meths then it stops the soot build up by cooling the flame.
It does take a little longer to then bring things to the boil but this then helps on the simmering front.
The limits around 1/3 water to 2/3 meths, so you do have a bit of leeway to find a ratio that suits you.

Luck ............

[glucas]

Great gear. Ours is ≥ 30y old and I'm expecting it so see us out.

Lots on this in the archives.

Good points above. Really wise to do the experiments.

What is the best fuel to take in terms of bike touring? A trangia fuel bottle or gas cannsiter?

We use a dedicated fuel bottle that has its own cage. It never goes inside a pannier. Ours is a SIGG, but I don't think that it's available any more: there's a recent thread on this.

I am trying to get a grip on what is needed for a 10+ day trip.

A bit more information, please: how many meals per day for how many people?

Weight etc?

NB you don't have to take all of the pans with you on every trip!

General availability?

Availability of alcohol fuel is excellent, but you need to know the local names and the sorts of places where it's sold... this might not be obvious. I hope that someone can comment on availability for gas...

Jonathan (25K and only use alcohol)

Jonathan,

Thank you. I am only cooking for myself and envisage using it roughly half the time, eating out the other half if that makes sense. So on a 10 day tour, 5 days use - 2x a day, perhaps just a brew on the other days.

Weight saving - I am not worried about the pans - it was if people had any thoughts about meths v gas cartridge in terms of weight. I guess it doesn't matter that much as I am looking at 10k+ anyway, with sleeping kit, cooking kit etc.

Graham

[glucas]

One trick is if you add a little water to the meths then it stops the soot build up by cooling the flame.
It does take a little longer to then bring things to the boil but this then helps on the simmering front.
The limits around 1/3 water to 2/3 meths, so you do have a bit of leeway to find a ratio that suits you.

Luck ............

Ahh. Thank you, that's good to know!

[KTHSullivan]

One trick is if you add a little water to the meths then it stops the soot build up by cooling the flame.
It does take a little longer to then bring things to the boil but this then helps on the simmering front.
The limits around 1/3 water to 2/3 meths, so you do have a bit of leeway to find a ratio that suits you.

Luck ............

+1

[Mr.Benton]

You can significantly reduce fuel usage by the use of a pot cosy. Some for sale here https://www.backpackinglight.co.uk/cook ... 2-119.html

I made my own out of radiator reflector purchased from the DIY shop. There are plenty of instructions on the internet.

Pot Cosy works well when you are cooking pasta, veg, or rice. They don't add any value when simply boiling water for dehydrated meals.

[glucas]

You can significantly reduce fuel usage by the use of a pot cosy. Some for sale here https://www.backpackinglight.co.uk/cook ... 2-119.html

I made my own out of radiator reflector purchased from the DIY shop. There are plenty of instructions on the internet.

Pot Cosy works well when you are cooking pasta, veg, or rice. They don't add any value when simply boiling water for dehydrated meals.

Many thanks for this. I just watched the video and it looked a useful bit of kit.

Graham

[pjclinch]

Some further pros of gas...

It's easier to control
It's very hard to spill
It doesn't smell nasty

The importance of the first depends what you're cooking, and if you just want it on maximum (given maximum isn't exactly a volcano) it's a bit of a moot point. The simmer ring does work, but it's a faff compared to just twiddling a knob.

The others aren't deal breakers, but come a very cold morning, carefully pouring out a fairly noxious liquid in to a wee pot as opposed to just twiddling a knob and off you go is something I'm fine not doing. If you have access to lab alcohol that's not nearly so smelly and doesn't make so much soot, but it's quite likely you don't.

Gas is noisier, but it's still not obtrusive IME. Quite a few liquid fuel pressure stoves make quite a roar, and gas, even opened right up, is nothing like as loud.

The time thing for alcohol isn't really the issue many detractors seem to think it is, and in practice is more about time management. It's not fast, but as you can set it on its way and leave it to itself because it won't fall over it's not "a watched pot never boils" because you don't have to watch it! On one occasion a pal with a pressure stove was putting his flamethrower together and making fun of my Trangia. I challended him to a first-to-dinner race, which he eagerly took me up on and lost before he'd even primed because my dinner had been cooking since the first thing done setting up camp.

Pot cosies... work fine, we just use towels.

Pete.

[glucas]

Some further pros of gas...

It's easier to control
It's very hard to spill
It doesn't smell nasty

The importance of the first depends what you're cooking, and if you just want it on maximum (given maximum isn't exactly a volcano) it's a bit of a moot point. The simmer ring does work, but it's a faff compared to just twiddling a knob.

The others aren't deal breakers, but come a very cold morning, carefully pouring out a fairly noxious liquid in to a wee pot as opposed to just twiddling a knob and off you go is something I'm fine not doing. If you have access to lab alcohol that's not nearly so smelly and doesn't make so much soot, but it's quite likely you don't.

Gas is noisier, but it's still not obtrusive IME. Quite a few liquid fuel pressure stoves make quite a roar, and gas, even opened right up, is nothing like as loud.

The time thing for alcohol isn't really the issue many detractors seem to think it is, and in practice is more about time management. It's not fast, but as you can set it on its way and leave it to itself because it won't fall over it's not "a watched pot never boils" because you don't have to watch it! On one occasion a pal with a pressure stove was putting his flamethrower together and making fun of my Trangia. I challended him to a first-to-dinner race, which he eagerly took me up on and lost before he'd even primed because my dinner had been cooking since the first thing done setting up camp.

Pot cosies... work fine, we just use towels.

Pete.

Thanks Pete for the benefit of your experience! I can see you are a gas man!

[iandusud]

Quite a few liquid fuel pressure stoves make quite a roar, and gas, even opened right up, is nothing like as loud.

That's one of the best things about a Primus stove.