Lack of minutes - why

dodbinmule
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Lack of minutes - why

Postby dodbinmule » 18 Apr 2017, 12:54pm

Lack of minutes - why

I see there is still no minutes for the Cycling UK Board meeting 21 January 2017
Nor
Cycling UK Board meeting 1 April 2017 - Summary

Given that at the January meeting it was agreed that the summary would be available within seven days of the meeting.

Any speculation why this the case?

http://www.cyclinguk.org/about/cycling- ... d/meetings

Ron
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Re: Lack of minutes - why

Postby Ron » 18 Apr 2017, 2:49pm

It seems most of the governance is confidential nowadays :( .
http://www.cyclinguk.org/sites/default/ ... 010417.pdf

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gaz
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Re: Lack of minutes - why

Postby gaz » 18 Apr 2017, 7:04pm

dodbinmule wrote:Given that at the January meeting it was agreed that the summary would be available within seven days of the meeting.

Any speculation why this the case?

Given that the Minutes of the January meeting have not yet been published, how do you know what timescale was agreed for publication of a summary? Are you simply speculating? :wink:

BTW the Summary for the meeting on 21 January was published on 3 February 2017, a timescale of almost 2 weeks.
It's got nothing to do with vorsprung durch technic you know ...

dodbinmule
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Re: Lack of minutes - why

Postby dodbinmule » 18 Apr 2017, 7:37pm

But where the minutes for January they had to be ready for April meeting on the 1 april

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gaz
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Re: Lack of minutes - why

Postby gaz » 18 Apr 2017, 7:58pm

I'm confident the January minutes were ready for the April meeting. The minutes are never published prior to approval at the subsequent meeting. IME timescales of up to three months between approval and publication are not uncommon.

Such delays are indeed frustrating.
It's got nothing to do with vorsprung durch technic you know ...

drossall
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Re: Lack of minutes - why

Postby drossall » 19 Apr 2017, 12:01am

In an unrelated organisation, I've seen strong advice not to publish the minutes before the next meeting. The point of the process is that the next meeting validates the minutes, before which they have not been agreed to be a reliable record by those participating. If you publish early, and people act on the draft, it's hard or impossible to rescind what was published. In some circumstances, a genuine and innocent mistake by the minute-taker could reverse or misrepresent what was actually decided.

Of course, circulating copies to those present at the meeting (including those who for some reason could not attend) is not "publishing" them.

Psamathe
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Re: Lack of minutes - why

Postby Psamathe » 19 Apr 2017, 11:50am

drossall wrote:In an unrelated organisation, I've seen strong advice not to publish the minutes before the next meeting. The point of the process is that the next meeting validates the minutes, before which they have not been agreed to be a reliable record by those participating. If you publish early, and people act on the draft, it's hard or impossible to rescind what was published. In some circumstances, a genuine and innocent mistake by the minute-taker could reverse or misrepresent what was actually decided.

Of course, circulating copies to those present at the meeting (including those who for some reason could not attend) is not "publishing" them.

My Parish Council has been told to publish their meeting minutes a.s.a.p after the meeting (I think they were told within a week). They were told (by the District Council) that they should be publish as "Draft" and "Subject to Approval" but that they should not wait for the next Council Meeting.

So if part of our legislature is being told that, should be good enough for CTC?

Ian

dodbinmule
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Re: Lack of minutes - why

Postby dodbinmule » 19 Apr 2017, 8:17pm

I have been told that it is the responsibility of the chair to sign of the draft minutes of course subject to approval at the next meeting.
Also of course any action record in the minutes does not wait until the next meeting it should be action straight away.

On similar note the minutes of the CTC AGM 2016 seem rather lacking all they record the motions and the resulting vote. there is no discourse on the actual proceeding in term of discussion. I would suggest they are not a true account of the meeting any views of attendees of that AGM.

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gaz
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Re: Lack of minutes - why

Postby gaz » 19 Apr 2017, 8:50pm

dodbinmule wrote:On similar note the minutes of the CTC AGM 2016 seem rather lacking all they record the motions and the resulting vote. there is no discourse on the actual proceeding in term of discussion. ...

I cannot recall a single set of CTC AGM minutes in the last thirty years that included any detail beyond that of the motions presented to the meeting and the resulting vote.
It's got nothing to do with vorsprung durch technic you know ...

dodbinmule
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Re: Lack of minutes - why

Postby dodbinmule » 19 Apr 2017, 10:29pm

gaz wrote:
dodbinmule wrote:On similar note the minutes of the CTC AGM 2016 seem rather lacking all they record the motions and the resulting vote. there is no discourse on the actual proceeding in term of discussion. ...

I cannot recall a single set of CTC AGM minutes in the last thirty years that included any detail beyond that of the motions presented to the meeting and the resulting vote.


Yes but we would have had a report of the AGM in the magazine to give a flavor of the meeting. But my point still stand the minutes are not a true account .

Here is example of a set of minutes from

BC 2016 AGM

https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/zuvvi ... inutes.pdf

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gaz
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Re: Lack of minutes - why

Postby gaz » 20 Apr 2017, 8:32pm

dodbinmule wrote:... But my point still stand the minutes are not a true account .

I don't recall challenging that point, since you persist.

IMO they are a "true account" in the sense that the information is factually correct.

Whilst I'd expect that they meet all the legal obligations required of a set of Minutes they certainly fall a long way short of being a transcript of the meeting.

Taking Motion 14 as an example:
Image
35 votes were cast in the room. 2952 votes were cast by proxy.

I suppose if there were some commentary accompanying the AGM Minutes I might learn something of the opinions of the 1.2% of Members* who were present. Even then I doubt that all of them spoke on the Motion.

Without a commentary I already know how many of those in the room supported/opposed/abstained on the Motion. What do you feel would be gained by including such commentary in the Minutes?

*Edit - 1.2% of total number of Members who choose to vote on this Motion, approx 0.05% of the total Membership.
Last edited by gaz on 21 Apr 2017, 2:59pm, edited 1 time in total.
It's got nothing to do with vorsprung durch technic you know ...

dodbinmule
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Re: Lack of minutes - why

Postby dodbinmule » 20 Apr 2017, 9:07pm

Historical view for future generations.

You are just one person what of other member of the CTC /CUK are on on this forum.

Have you looked at BC minutes?

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gaz
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Re: Lack of minutes - why

Postby gaz » 20 Apr 2017, 9:25pm

dodbinmule wrote:You are just one person what of other member of the CTC /CUK are on on this forum.

Other Members and non-Members are free to participate on this thead and post their own opinions on the matter, just as I am free to post mine.
It's got nothing to do with vorsprung durch technic you know ...

dodbinmule
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Re: Lack of minutes - why

Postby dodbinmule » 20 Apr 2017, 10:12pm

gaz wrote:
dodbinmule wrote:You are just one person what of other member of the CTC /CUK are on on this forum.

Other Members and non-Members are free to participate on this thead and post their own opinions on the matter, just as I am free to post mine.


You misunderstand, the number of member who know of this forum is very small, the number who are members is even smaller and the one who contribute to is even smaller.

Therefore, I think it would good for openness and transparency to have full minutes publish in the magazine.


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