Joint membership- why does CUK discriminate ?

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geomannie
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Joint membership- why does CUK discriminate ?

Postby geomannie » 6 Jun 2017, 2:14pm

My email to CUK membership

Dear Cycling UK Membership

We have just had our renewal reminder for joint membership. Despite my wife's complaints last year, you have again failed to provide my wife with a membership card or even acknowledge that she exists, let alone telling her in the letter that she can apply for a card in her own right.

Under the terms of Cycling UK she is a member in her own right and not an appendage of me. As a charity it is beholden you to treat all your members equally and she should be provided with a membership card in her own name by right, not by special pleading. If other charities can organise this, then why do Cycling UK prefer to discriminate against joint members? Possession of a physical card is not a trivial matter, permitting shopping discounts and voting rights at meetings.

If I may remind you of a poll I conducted last year on the forum viewtopic.php?f=45&t=107808&p=1038380&hilit=membership#p1035871, this was overwhelmingly in favour of automatic joint membership cards.

It would be a shame if we were to leave Cycling UK because of your discriminatory position, but so say that we are unhappy is mild in the least. For the time being we have cancelled our direct debit and wait for your reply. Please cc my wife in your reply.
geomannie

roubaixtuesday
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Re: Joint membership- why does CUK discriminate ?

Postby roubaixtuesday » 6 Jun 2017, 2:52pm

Have you spoken to them? I had a similar issue which was sorted in 30 seconds on the phone.

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geomannie
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Re: Joint membership- why does CUK discriminate ?

Postby geomannie » 6 Jun 2017, 3:02pm

We have not spoken but had an extensive email correspondence last year. This is not an individual problem but a structural problem with the CUK joint membership system. They are aware of it but chose to do nothing to save money by discrimating against a sub-set of members.
geomannie

roubaixtuesday
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Re: Joint membership- why does CUK discriminate ?

Postby roubaixtuesday » 6 Jun 2017, 3:11pm

Fair enough. We're joint members, both get cards and have done for many years. No idea why your position is different.

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geomannie
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Re: Joint membership- why does CUK discriminate ?

Postby geomannie » 6 Jun 2017, 5:11pm

Case closed at least for this year.

I have just had an emailed reply which states that CUK are "looking into ways to send out membership cards for both adults on a Household membership, as these are the people most likely to require individual cards. Unfortunately it requires some quite large upgrades to our membership systems and these take time to implement and then test."

There is no definite time scale but at least CUK are now admitting that there is an issue with not sending out membership cards to both joint members and are investiagting a fix. I appreciate that this can take time.

Thank-you CUK.
geomannie

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Lance Dopestrong
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Re: Joint membership- why does CUK discriminate ?

Postby Lance Dopestrong » 5 Jul 2017, 9:24pm

On the plus side they must be applauded for their very reasonable membership rate for carers. That's the main thing that keeps me here instead of with the others.
https://themediocrecyclist.home.blog
Self employed MIAS L5.B Instructor.
Warwickshire Lowland Rescue Bike lead.
IPMBA member.

martinf1432
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Re: Joint membership- why does CUK discriminate ?

Postby martinf1432 » 7 Jun 2018, 4:36pm

OK, so we are now 11 months on from the above posts and still one of the members in our 'family' has just been treated with contempt by Cycling UK. They are happy to issue a renewal for £70.00 but give not the slightest hint that there is another member hidden in that cost or what to do about gaining a membership card for that member.

We have renewed, but probably never again considering the discrimination by Cycling UK against half our 'family'.

AndyK
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Re: Joint membership- why does CUK discriminate ?

Postby AndyK » 8 Jun 2018, 7:26pm

I raised this recently with my trustee hat on.* I gather the money involved is not a trivial amount but I think it's important - not because of 'discrimination' but because I think all members should feel that they're valued by the organisation, and having their own card is symbolic of that. I intend to make sure it's included in any wider discussions about membership.

In the meantime, I've been assured that any household member who wants their own card can just contact the membership team and ask for one. The 'welcome' email that goes out to new household members now specifically mentions this. (Obviously if a lot of household members start asking for cards, it'll soon become more efficient just to send cards to everyone!) If anyone's tried this and not been provided with a card, send me a PM and I'll inquire further.

One thing I'm conscious of is that it's not just partners who miss out here but children (under 18s) living in the same household. We worry about not bringing enough young people in, yet we studiously ignore the young members we do have through household memberships. Not quite sure how we should improve that, but there must be a way. Suggestions on a postcard please. (Preferably not involving a patronising page in the magazine with jolly cartoon animals.)

Sure, most kids aren't going to be very bothered about Cycling UK membership, but if they have something that regularly reminds them of it then perhaps it will cross their minds to join when they leave home and head out into the world - especially if they're cycling to work or university.

The 'discrimination' point is a tricky one. I had an argument with the Co-Op Bank recently on a similar theme. My wife and I have joint credit cards, but they point-blank refused to talk to her about her own card because I'm named as the primary account holder. 'You'll have to get your husband to phone up.' Let's just say that when I did phone up, I had a few pointed comments to make. Their position was that it isn't discriminatory because they don't dictate which member of the household should be the primary contact, just that there should be one. That primary contact could be male, female or any other gender you care to name.

* Actually I didn't get issued with a trustee hat. A t-shirt and a rather nice rain jacket, but no hat.

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geomannie
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Re: Joint membership- why does CUK discriminate ?

Postby geomannie » 14 Jun 2018, 10:35am

Hi,

We have just had, or should I say that "I" have just my membership renewed. My wife, it seems, still does not exist except on appeal. I sent another email raising this issue to membership and here is the reply.

"Thank you for your email and I’m sorry to hear of your continued frustration with the additional membership card set up.

Unfortunately, the cost of implementing this means it’s not something we have the budget for as it stands currently. We have looked into ways of triggering an automated mailout for members who requested it previously and this is something the IT guys are trying to do.

I have arranged for a new card to be sent to **** and it should be with her in the next 7-10 working days.

Once again, I do apologise for the inconvenience caused."


This reply seems to say that there is no prospect of a fix. The only way forward that I can see is to raise this at the AGM. Can anyone advise how I can get this as an agenda item?

Thanks
geomannie

Psamathe
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Re: Joint membership- why does CUK discriminate ?

Postby Psamathe » 14 Jun 2018, 10:44am

From the post title "... why does CUK discriminate ?" - discriminate against single people. Why should single people pay a higher rate (per person) than married people?

Ian

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gaz
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Re: Joint membership- why does CUK discriminate ?

Postby gaz » 14 Jun 2018, 12:36pm

The current terminology is "Household Membership".
Maximum of 2 adults plus unlimited children under the age of 18 living at the same address. Only the main household member will automatically receive a membership card and welcome pack - membership cards for additional members can be requested at any time from our membership department at no additional cost.

No requirement to be married or in any form of relationship, only to live at the same address. Justification for the discount ... you share a copy of Cycle :wink: .

There are numerous other discounted rates. The discounts of commuted membership (5 years for price of 4) and life membership are only accessible to those with sufficient disposable income, justified?

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geomannie
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Re: Joint membership- why does CUK discriminate ?

Postby geomannie » 14 Jun 2018, 1:02pm

From the post title "... why does CUK discriminate ?" - discriminate against single people. Why should single people pay a higher rate (per person) than married people?


That is a question worth asking and I will reply as follows.

CUK offers joint/family memberships at a lower rate of £70 compared to £45 for single. The joint rate reflects the a) the desire by CUK to have more signed up members on its books to give campaigning credibility and b) the fact that joint membership means only a single magazine is mailed out. I cannot comment precisely on the cost of printing and posting a magazine every 2 months but here are some conservative estimates. Bulk printing of 67,000 copies might be £0.50 per issue (see https://mixam.co.uk/magazines). Postage costs will depend on the deal but perhaps £1 per mailing. Thus that it costs CUK about £9 per year just post out an extra magazine. For a family of 4 that raises to £27 extra. The costs alone account for much of the price differential.

My main point, however, is that by not providing the second and subsequent joint members with a card by default is the discrimination. They are either full members or they not. If they are, and they are, then they need their membership cards to vote at meetings and to get shop discounts. Why do they have to make special pleading for their rights to be acknowledged?

If joint/family membership costs have to rise, then so be it.
geomannie

Psamathe
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Re: Joint membership- why does CUK discriminate ?

Postby Psamathe » 14 Jun 2018, 1:11pm

geomannie wrote:
From the post title "... why does CUK discriminate ?" - discriminate against single people. Why should single people pay a higher rate (per person) than married people?


That is a question worth asking and I will reply as follows.

CUK offers joint/family memberships at a lower rate of £70 compared to £45 for single. The joint rate reflects the a) the desire by CUK to have more signed up members on its books to give campaigning credibility and b) the fact that joint membership means only a single magazine is mailed out. I cannot comment precisely on the cost of printing and posting a magazine every 2 months but here are some conservative estimates. Bulk printing of 67,000 copies might be £0.50 per issue (see https://mixam.co.uk/magazines). Postage costs will depend on the deal but perhaps £1 per mailing. Thus that it costs CUK about £9 per year just post out an extra magazine. For a family of 4 that raises to £27 extra. The costs alone account for much of the price differential.

My main point, however, is that by not providing the second and subsequent joint members with a card by default is the discrimination. They are either full members or they not. If they are, and they are, then they need their membership cards to vote at meetings and to get shop discounts. Why do they have to make special pleading for their rights to be acknowledged?

If joint/family membership costs have to rise, then so be it.

If the cost of Cycle Magazine were an issue then they should be offering a subscription rate excluding Cycle Magazine to everybody rather than discriminate against single people.

If you are justifying the lower cost per head on a joint membership then maybe you should add the cost saving for not producing and sending out the additional membership cards. So saying the saving on Cycle Magazine justifies the lower cost but the saving on membership cards is discriminatory seems cherry picking possible justification reasons.

Ian

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geomannie
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Re: Joint membership- why does CUK discriminate ?

Postby geomannie » 14 Jun 2018, 1:26pm

Ian,

I respectfully disagree. While cost is an issue, its a side issue. Is my wife a full CUK or not? The joint membership does not make her feel like it.

Many organisations offer joint memebership discounts. Many organisation are still able to offer individual membership cards. Why are CUK so hopeless on this?
geomannie

Psamathe
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Re: Joint membership- why does CUK discriminate ?

Postby Psamathe » 14 Jun 2018, 1:42pm

geomannie wrote:Ian,

I respectfully disagree. While cost is an issue, its a side issue. Is my wife a full CUK or not? The joint membership does not make her feel like it.

Many organisations offer joint memebership discounts. Many organisation are still able to offer individual membership cards. Why are CUK so hopeless on this?

Why should your wife (and yourself) pay less than a single person? If you pay less why are you unhappy with getting less?

Ian