My objection to Gift Aid

pete75
Posts: 12433
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: My objection to Gift Aid

Postby pete75 » 30 Jan 2020, 9:16am

PH wrote:
pete75 wrote: Saturday normally paid at time and a half and Sunday double time.

What decade are you living in? Anyone still lucky enough to be on those terms will most likely be in a heavily unionised industry (Remember those?) Far more usual now to have a single Unsocial Hours premium rate and I've seen those as low as 15%. The best offer I've had in the last couple of decades was time and third on Sat and time and half Sun, with the hours considered unsocial in the week considerably shrunk. Increasingly common is for workers previously considered hourly paid to now be considered salaried, which as the minimum wage rises erodes any premium. That of course is those lucky enough to even have a contract.


My wife pays her staff those rates in her business and none of them are in a union. She thinks staff should get decent extra pay for working weekend if it's needed. I agree with her - you obviously don't and think she's using decades old business practices.
Salaried doesn't mean no overtime pay. I was salaried in my last job of 30 years but we still got paid overtime rates of time and a half and double time for weekend work when it was necessary. That was in 2018.
I think you've just been working for crap employers.

The vast majority of employees have a contract.

Finally What's wrong with being in a union? It's not luck that gets good terms through union membership but paying subs, sticking together and being prepared to fight to win and keep decent terms and conditions.

PH
Posts: 8122
Joined: 21 Jan 2007, 12:31am
Location: Derby
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Re: My objection to Gift Aid

Postby PH » 30 Jan 2020, 9:40am

pete75 wrote:
PH wrote:
pete75 wrote: Saturday normally paid at time and a half and Sunday double time.

What decade are you living in? Anyone still lucky enough to be on those terms will most likely be in a heavily unionised industry (Remember those?) Far more usual now to have a single Unsocial Hours premium rate and I've seen those as low as 15%. The best offer I've had in the last couple of decades was time and third on Sat and time and half Sun, with the hours considered unsocial in the week considerably shrunk. Increasingly common is for workers previously considered hourly paid to now be considered salaried, which as the minimum wage rises erodes any premium. That of course is those lucky enough to even have a contract.


My wife pays her staff those rates in her business and none of them are in a union. She thinks staff should get decent extra pay for working weekend if it's needed. I agree with her - you obviously don't and think she's using decades old business practices.
Salaried doesn't mean no overtime pay. I was salaried in my last job of 30 years but we still got paid overtime rates of time and a half and double time for weekend work when it was necessary. That was in 2018.
I think you've just been working for crap employers.

The vast majority of employees have a contract.

Finally What's wrong with being in a union? It's not luck that gets good terms through union membership but paying subs, sticking together and being prepared to fight to win and keep decent terms and conditions.

I've no idea why you bothered writing any of that, as usual it doesn't deal with any of the points I made and assigns to me opinions that I haven't expressed.
If you are in any way interested in information rather than prejudice, you might like to look at the Unison campaigning against the erosion of unsocial hours premiums in the NHS which has been running for several years.

pete75
Posts: 12433
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: My objection to Gift Aid

Postby pete75 » 30 Jan 2020, 10:06am

PH wrote:
pete75 wrote:
PH wrote:What decade are you living in? Anyone still lucky enough to be on those terms will most likely be in a heavily unionised industry (Remember those?) Far more usual now to have a single Unsocial Hours premium rate and I've seen those as low as 15%. The best offer I've had in the last couple of decades was time and third on Sat and time and half Sun, with the hours considered unsocial in the week considerably shrunk. Increasingly common is for workers previously considered hourly paid to now be considered salaried, which as the minimum wage rises erodes any premium. That of course is those lucky enough to even have a contract.


My wife pays her staff those rates in her business and none of them are in a union. She thinks staff should get decent extra pay for working weekend if it's needed. I agree with her - you obviously don't and think she's using decades old business practices.
Salaried doesn't mean no overtime pay. I was salaried in my last job of 30 years but we still got paid overtime rates of time and a half and double time for weekend work when it was necessary. That was in 2018.
I think you've just been working for crap employers.

The vast majority of employees have a contract.

Finally What's wrong with being in a union? It's not luck that gets good terms through union membership but paying subs, sticking together and being prepared to fight to win and keep decent terms and conditions.

I've no idea why you bothered writing any of that, as usual it doesn't deal with any of the points I made and assigns to me opinions that I haven't expressed.
If you are in any way interested in information rather than prejudice, you might like to look at the Unison campaigning against the erosion of unsocial hours premiums in the NHS which has been running for several years.


It deals with your claim that the rates I quoted are decades old and don't happen now, your view that union member are "lucky" wh they get decent terms and conditions and your implication that being salaried precludes overtime payment.
Where is there any prejudice in what I wrote?

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100%JR
Posts: 1023
Joined: 31 May 2016, 10:47pm
Location: High Green,Sheffield.

Re: My objection to Gift Aid

Postby 100%JR » 30 Jan 2020, 10:14am

PH wrote:
pete75 wrote: Saturday normally paid at time and a half and Sunday double time.

What decade are you living in? Anyone still lucky enough to be on those terms will most likely be in a heavily unionised industry (Remember those?) Far more usual now to have a single Unsocial Hours premium rate and I've seen those as low as 15%. The best offer I've had in the last couple of decades was time and third on Sat and time and half Sun, with the hours considered unsocial in the week considerably shrunk. Increasingly common is for workers previously considered hourly paid to now be considered salaried, which as the minimum wage rises erodes any premium. That of course is those lucky enough to even have a contract.

I get time and a half Friday nights after 22:00.
Time and a half Saturday up to 22:00 then Double time.
Double time Sundays.
All the above is standard for my shift pattern as I work two weekends per month.
If however I work my weekends off it's:-
Time and a half Friday up to 22:00 then double time after 22:00
Double time Saturday up to 22:00 then double time and a half after.
Double time and a half all Sunday.
Monday to Thursday is always time and a half if I work my days off.
Bank Hols are time and a half to Treble time depending on the day and whether it's a rota day off.

Oldjohnw
Posts: 2866
Joined: 16 Oct 2018, 4:23am
Location: Northumberland

Re: My objection to Gift Aid

Postby Oldjohnw » 30 Jan 2020, 10:47am

I have never had overtime payments. When I was at the lower reaches of salaried staff weekly waged staff in my team could earn more than me if we ever had to work beyond 5.00pm. If I worked over 4(I think) hours I got subsistence. If ever on a weekend or overnight I got TOIL plus subsistence.
John

Vorpal
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Re: My objection to Gift Aid

Postby Vorpal » 30 Jan 2020, 12:06pm

As an engineer and later as a middle manager, I never received any overtime, unless I worked specifically because my boss said, 'you need to work on Saturday to....'
Then, I got my normal rate for hours worked.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

pete75
Posts: 12433
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: My objection to Gift Aid

Postby pete75 » 30 Jan 2020, 3:41pm

100%JR wrote:
PH wrote:
pete75 wrote: Saturday normally paid at time and a half and Sunday double time.

What decade are you living in? Anyone still lucky enough to be on those terms will most likely be in a heavily unionised industry (Remember those?) Far more usual now to have a single Unsocial Hours premium rate and I've seen those as low as 15%. The best offer I've had in the last couple of decades was time and third on Sat and time and half Sun, with the hours considered unsocial in the week considerably shrunk. Increasingly common is for workers previously considered hourly paid to now be considered salaried, which as the minimum wage rises erodes any premium. That of course is those lucky enough to even have a contract.

I get time and a half Friday nights after 22:00.
Time and a half Saturday up to 22:00 then Double time.
Double time Sundays.
All the above is standard for my shift pattern as I work two weekends per month.
If however I work my weekends off it's:-
Time and a half Friday up to 22:00 then double time after 22:00
Double time Saturday up to 22:00 then double time and a half after.
Double time and a half all Sunday.
Monday to Thursday is always time and a half if I work my days off.
Bank Hols are time and a half to Treble time depending on the day and whether it's a rota day off.


ep bank holiday treble time. Was great when I worked in food factory maintenance. 12 hour sat at time and a half , 12 hour Sunday at double and 12 hour Monday at treble - trebles all round as they say. :wink: 12 hour shifts all through the week too so 4 hours at time and a half every day.

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100%JR
Posts: 1023
Joined: 31 May 2016, 10:47pm
Location: High Green,Sheffield.

Re: My objection to Gift Aid

Postby 100%JR » 30 Jan 2020, 5:33pm

Oldjohnw wrote:If ever on a weekend or overnight I got TOIL plus subsistence.

I would never work for basic TOIL.....unless it was at least X4.
We were asked to work Xmas day this year.The offer was Treble time!!!????? :lol: :lol: :lol:
I would have worked it had it been quadruple time plus 4 days TOIL.

Equal time TOIL should be illegal.

Nigel
Posts: 178
Joined: 25 Feb 2007, 6:29pm

Re: My objection to Gift Aid

Postby Nigel » 3 Feb 2020, 5:00pm

rmurphy195 wrote:...….I won't say I never gift aid, but the way I do it I guess sits somewhere in the middle.

……….
Charities I don't, simply because I'm usually just putting coins in boxes/buckets on shop counters etc. and can't be bothered with the little envelopes.

...


As the recently retired treasurer of a small charity, I've a small snippet : those bucket cash donations to smaller organisations may be on the Gift-Aid tax claim under the "Gift Aid small donations scheme (GASDS)".
The charity in question was receiving more through the GASDS part of the claim than it was in direct Gift Aid form claim.

fullupandslowingdown
Posts: 241
Joined: 11 Oct 2007, 5:47pm

Re: My objection to Gift Aid

Postby fullupandslowingdown » 13 Feb 2020, 2:05am

I was at the motherinlaws the other week along with my betterhalf and one of her sisters, who works for the city council. She got talking about pay and conditions. I ended up having to tell her that she is like too many daily mail voters, simply not a clue about how the other half live.

NMW jobs typically go hand in hand with the minimum possible employer pension contributions, no sick pay other than SSP. The minimum legal holiday entitlement. No paid time of for emergencies, domestic and foreign, hospital etc appointments. You pay for your own training ( I have spent around £1250 in the last 3 years for tickets that I need to work on site, and it's exceptionally difficult to get any tax back on them unless you're a Doctor earning £75K+) You often have to provide your own PPE even though the law says it should be provided free by the employer (but if you're working as a temp for an agency - no PPE = no work)

Often no overtime premium, or such an archaic scheme such as you must work over 8 hours each day x 5 days and work over 45 hours before you get O/T rates on any hours over 45. Another delightful con that agencies employ is the "Umbrella Company" scam. You think you're getting a decent rate such as say £12 p/h, but that's what the agency give 'your' umbrella company, who then deduct their employer's taxes and expenses before paying you your pay minus your employee's taxes.

Most people earning NMW are very unlikely to accrue a big enough pension pot through the auto-enrolment scheme to give them anything much in retirement unless they are starting from their teens / early twenties, and have continuity of full time employment until they're 65+ Yes, I know, voluntarily pay more into your pension !!! Except if you're working 30+ hours then it's highly unlikely you'll be getting any benefits. Which means you have the same living costs as anyone else : gas and electric, car (because many jobs aren't on the bus route) rent and polltax, clothes and food, sundry other expenses. How can you afford any more into a pension pot that might anyway be stolen by the billionaires before you get it? saving for a deposit for a house so you're not renting for your entire life and dependent upon on the largess of landlords not to bleed you dry.

Except there are fewer jobs for life, lots of it is short term contracts, less than full time hours. Or another scam is the "self employed" job offering little more than the PAYE NMW rate, which means again, once you factor in your own costs and holiday entitlement, you're been paid peanuts.

Candidates will need valid CSCS Cards and their own PPE (minimum is hard hat, hi vis vest, and safety boots). 1 years' previous site labouring experience preferred.

All candidates must have full PPE, CSCS and a recent experience we can reference.

Requirements for the position are:
Fit to work certificate
A valid CSCS Card
Previous experience on site
Full PPE
References upon request from previous employers.

No expenses payable. Rate of pay will be £11 per hour via Umbrella company dependent on chosen payment company. Candidates MUST have CSCS card and recent working references. The ideal candidate would have experience working on a Shop fits and has previous experience assembling equipment

£11.50/hr via umbrella payroll
What are we looking for?
A hard working individual who can commit for the full duration of the project. Must have rudimentary site knowledge and some previous experience. Successful applicants will need to provide:
· valid CSCS card
· asbestos awareness certificate
· full PPE
· contactable work references



some random cuttings from Indeed jobsite