No diversity in Cycle magazine

doughboy
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No diversity in Cycle magazine

Postby doughboy » 6 Oct 2015, 12:15pm

Why are there never any non-white people in Cycle magazine? I've searched through the last 3 issues and the ethnic diversity is zero. Is this a CTC problem, or a UK cycling problem? Or maybe people don't see it as a problem at all.

wirral_cyclist
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Re: No diversity in Cycle magazine

Postby wirral_cyclist » 6 Oct 2015, 12:46pm

No non-white cyclists here in Wirral and I've seen very few non-white on tours bith UK or in Europe FR/BE/NL/DE so I guess it isn't a problem. Do you want some token one's to be seen to be (un)representative?

doughboy
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Re: No diversity in Cycle magazine

Postby doughboy » 6 Oct 2015, 1:07pm

According to this social science research
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 3611000785
Cycling is seen as an activity for white men, so people who aren't that (women, non-whites) avoid it.
Some interesting quotes from the paper:
Asian woman: "My mum said I don’t want all these people seeing my daughter on a bike… we lived near a mosque so we had loads of people walking past… my mum didn’t want people saying, oh my God, that such and such’s daughter is on a bike… it just isn’t socially accepted… it would probably be for some of the older generation as bad as seeing a woman smoke"
Black woman: "When you’ve made it, you buy a car not a bicycle
Black man: "Marvin, for instance, suggested that being “really poor” might be the one thing that would make him consider cycling; it still had associations for him of low status transport that could be afforded by anyone, rather than the opportunities for recognisable status display afforded by the private car"

Cycling's fun so it seems a shame that whole sections of society don't do it because of social attitudes. Just think CTC ought to look at it if they're interested in 'inclusivity' and 'diversity'.

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mjr
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Re: No diversity in Cycle magazine

Postby mjr » 6 Oct 2015, 1:12pm

The Get Britain Cycling report says "women and teenage girls, black and minority ethnic communities, health patients and people with all forms of disability, and other disadvantaged groups and communities" are under-represented in cycling at the moment.

I don't see a problem with CTC deliberately slightly overrepresenting these groups (compared to cyclists, not the nation) in coverage in an attempt to encourage them/us. After all, CTC is meant to do some campaigning, not only sit back and reflect the current situation.

(But as some may know, I don't like it when activities are done to the complete exclusion of all other groups. An issue of Cycle of only disabled people would be as bad as a magazine with none, for various reasons.)
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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Tangled Metal
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Re: No diversity in Cycle magazine

Postby Tangled Metal » 6 Oct 2015, 1:24pm

IIRC walking had a similar discussion a few years ago within ramblers. Whilst non-whites did walk they were in a small minority. Led to several initiatives, mostly London group led, that aimed to get more black and Asian walkers going out with their group walks.

Truth is cycling probably has the same problems, but being sport too it has a higher visibility. By that I mean you didn't see many black or Asian cyclists in top cycling events. In fact IIRC this last TdF surprised me when I saw a black, African cyclist in the event. With cycling if you don't see role models perhaps it's part of the problem. Cycle magazine might be representing a different demographic from the sports side (touring organization magazine) but perhaps something could be done that isn't just positive discrimination.

PS I just read an old issue in my GPs surgery and spotted the oil advert with a sexist image irrelevant to the product. This was discussed a while back and another discussion about a cover with a lass riding a bike that was not appreciated by some. Seems cycle mag does provoke some people to complain about sexism, diversity or inappropriate image use. Good discussions perhaps but at the end of the day it's a magazine for the CTC's membership. That's a minority group in itself so can you really expect minorities within minorities to be represented?

Psamathe
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Re: No diversity in Cycle magazine

Postby Psamathe » 6 Oct 2015, 1:26pm

Back in march the CTC heralded the Inclusive Cycling Section as being an important aspect of all their work on Inclusive Cycling and something those they were working with had asked for. Some thought it another CTC box ticking exercise. And looking at the activity on that section from more than 6 months ... people can make their own opinions and as to how this reflects on the CTC's achievements in this area.

Ian

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Si
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Re: No diversity in Cycle magazine

Postby Si » 6 Oct 2015, 1:33pm

The traditional club scene does not do a lot to inspire those from ethnic minorities. My local MG prides itself that they have around (I think) ten members from ethnic minorities, which is better than many.

However, in the same area we run a cycling promotional community group that teaches people to ride and puts on gentle introductory rides. The vast majority of people who come to us who want to learn to ride are from ethnic minorities. We go out of our way not to try to give the impression that we are all 'keen cyclists' with all the gear etc, rather we started reaching out to people through the council, through existing community groups and via Well-Being centres. Cycling, thus, is made out to be something that hasn't to be taken massively seriously and have loads of time and effort dedicated to it so that you can become a 'keen cyclist', but rather it's a fun activity that any one can do, just like having a walk in the park or booking a public tennis court for an hour.

There are plenty of people in most all groups within society that would like to cycle...it's all a question of how you promote it to them. The traditional CTC image doesn't always help. If you believe that the member group system is there to support touring and leisure cyclists then that isn't a problem - it's doing fine, but if you believe that it is there to get more people cycling from across the board then it's failing.

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Si
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Re: No diversity in Cycle magazine

Postby Si » 6 Oct 2015, 1:37pm

Psamathe wrote:Back in march the CTC heralded the Inclusive Cycling Section as being an important aspect of all their work on Inclusive Cycling and something those they were working with had asked for. Some thought it another CTC box ticking exercise. And looking at the activity on that section from more than 6 months ... people can make their own opinions and as to how this reflects on the CTC's achievements in this area.

Ian


Or one could actually look at what the CTC has done out in the non-virtual world, and base ones opinion on the real work rather than on a few posts on a forum.

Psamathe
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Re: No diversity in Cycle magazine

Postby Psamathe » 6 Oct 2015, 2:05pm

Si wrote:
Psamathe wrote:Back in march the CTC heralded the Inclusive Cycling Section as being an important aspect of all their work on Inclusive Cycling and something those they were working with had asked for. Some thought it another CTC box ticking exercise. And looking at the activity on that section from more than 6 months ... people can make their own opinions and as to how this reflects on the CTC's achievements in this area.

Ian


Or one could actually look at what the CTC has done out in the non-virtual world, and base ones opinion on the real work rather than on a few posts on a forum.

I only base my comment on what the CTC said on the matter at the time.

Ian

tenzan
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Re: No diversity in Cycle magazine

Postby tenzan » 8 Oct 2015, 10:17pm

As a cyclist of East Asian origin in London--I don't know if there's some irony that in the world, the great majority of cyclists are non-white, and yet in the UK and Europe it's noticeably less common in minority groups. I think part of the difference is that in Asia and Africa cycling is a utilitarian thing, but in the UK it's more a past time/hobby?

Seb

jgurney
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Re: No diversity in Cycle magazine

Postby jgurney » 9 Oct 2015, 9:12am

doughboy wrote:Why are there never any non-white people in Cycle magazine?


A big factor is that CTC does not generally hire models to pose for the images in Cycle, so it cannot control who appears in them. Most non-advertising images are in reports of tours and the like, and contain pictures of the people who actually did the tour, or they are news-related (e.g. pictures from the AGM) and contain pictures of the people featured in the report. As of the present, these do tend to be white. Advertisers might have more scope to vary the people appearing, but most of the ads. in Cycle do not feature people at all. When they do, I gather that they tend to feature a reasonably photogenic member of the firm's staff rather than hired models, as most of the firms involved are small and do not have a budget for models.

That said I agree Cycle's editors should be looking out for images that do feature non-white cyclists and use them where there is a sensible opportunity, but realistically until there are more non-white cyclists around to photograph the supply of images will be limited.

PaulB
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Re: No diversity in Cycle magazine

Postby PaulB » 9 Oct 2015, 12:13pm

Cycle magazine has a "closed readership" in that it is only available to CTC members. It therefore has little or no influence outside of the organisation. It doesn't matter how many photographs of minority groups it publishes the affect will be very limited as people from the groups featured will not see the images.

There is nothing to stop anyone from any background riding a bike or going for a walk. If they want to do it they can. We live in the UK which offers people the freedom of choice. I do not agree with those who support "multi-cultural" ideals. If you are living in the UK you are British and free to be part of the shared experience that is the British way of life. Yes, there are inequalities but some of those are self imposed by minority groups who have the remedies in their own hands. I could join a football supporters club but I am not the slightest bit interested in that sport, so I don't. Trying to artificially change the make up of cycling in this country, purely for political correct reasons, is a big mistake. Cycling will attract different people for different reasons and it is up to individuals to make themselves inclusive - or not.

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gaz
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Re: No diversity in Cycle magazine

Postby gaz » 9 Oct 2015, 12:24pm

doughboy wrote:Why are there never any non-white people in Cycle magazine? I've searched through the last 3 issues and the ethnic diversity is zero. ...

The ethnic diversity may be very poor but it is not zero.

Page 4 of the Oct/Nov 15 issue.
There'll be tarmac over, the white cliffs of Dover ...

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mjr
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Re: No diversity in Cycle magazine

Postby mjr » 9 Oct 2015, 1:03pm

PaulB wrote:Cycle magazine has a "closed readership" in that it is only available to CTC members. It therefore has little or no influence outside of the organisation.

Enough of those CTC members around here leave Cycle in public places (clubs, waiting rooms and so on) that it is more available than that, but I'd agree on the little influence. It's a shame it's not used as a promotional tool beyond members' direct action.

Trying to artificially change the make up of cycling in this country, purely for political correct reasons, is a big mistake. Cycling will attract different people for different reasons and it is up to individuals to make themselves inclusive - or not.

I think that rather misses the difference between groups who just aren't cycling and groups who are hindered from cycling by things that are simply wrong, such as design problems or cycling not being promoted as much in certain communities or even a misconception that cycling groups are exclusively for fit young white male Little Englanders. This isn't about political correctness - this is about the great British sense of fair play, an even stronger sense of duty and our rich tradition of voluntary organisations, local democracy and civic life that CTC is part of.
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pwa
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Re: No diversity in Cycle magazine

Postby pwa » 3 Nov 2015, 9:36am

It is my impression that whilst utility cycling is ethnically diverse, road racing and touring are not. Yet. And that makes it difficult for anyone producing a cycling mag. Do you show cycling as it is, with few non-white faces and male domination? Or do you introduce other ethnic faces, and more females, to give a message of inclusiveness?

I have run projects, in the past, that received public money and were meant to involve the public in activities. Because it was public money I was required to report on outputs, including the involvement of ethnic minorities. But in the South Wales valley communities in which I was working at the time, the "ethnic minorities" consisted of the Asian (Bangladeshi / Indian / Pakistani) families that ran the corner shops. That was it! So to avoid the report saying that participants were all white, I had to go into the corner shops and get those families involved. I had to market our work more intensively to them than to the rest of the community. Maybe it was good in one way, because it did get the minority group mixing with the rest. But it was all prompted by not wanting to say that, in reality, those communities were not very ethnically diverse. I wonder if the same is true of much of non-utility cycling at present.