Requesting help from CTC members

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Philip Benstead
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Requesting help from CTC members

Postby Philip Benstead » 8 Dec 2015, 6:22pm

Requesting help from CTC members

Very few members of the CTC either view or contribute to this or other forums.

As the result there is no way to gauge the support for the current direction of the CTC.

It is not possible for CTC trustees to communicate directly with their constituents.

I was wondering if other members would be interested in forwarding emails to other CTC members concerning the direction of the CTC.

The aim is to gauge the support within the CTC and if possible for them to send their comment to an email address.
Philip Benstead | Life Member Former CTC Councillor/Trustee
Organizing events and representing cyclist in southeast since 1988
Bikeability Instructor/Mechanic

Psamathe
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Re: Requesting help from CTC members

Postby Psamathe » 8 Dec 2015, 6:53pm

Philip Benstead wrote:...It is not possible for CTC trustees to communicate directly with their constituents.
...

Why not. I would have thought the CTC would provide e-mail addresses to a Councillor (or at least distribute an e-mail on the Councillors behalf). If they don't ... I wonder why.

Ian

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Philip Benstead
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Re: Requesting help from CTC members

Postby Philip Benstead » 8 Dec 2015, 7:10pm

Psamathe wrote:
Philip Benstead wrote:...It is not possible for CTC trustees to communicate directly with their constituents.
...

Why not. I would have thought the CTC would provide e-mail addresses to a Councillor (or at least distribute an e-mail on the Councillors behalf). If they don't ... I wonder why.

Ian


Recently three (not me may I say) CTC Trustees have tried but their copy was considered to be too divisive so was stop by the chair.
The chair comments stated that the trustee need to adhere to collective decision making.
This not unusual the CTC he has always held all the lever of communication.
I did not even try to send a message I knew this would happen.
The chair did say the council need to find ways to permit different view to be expressive to the membership within their legal duties as a charity.
Philip Benstead | Life Member Former CTC Councillor/Trustee
Organizing events and representing cyclist in southeast since 1988
Bikeability Instructor/Mechanic

Psamathe
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Re: Requesting help from CTC members

Postby Psamathe » 8 Dec 2015, 8:12pm

Philip Benstead wrote:
Psamathe wrote:
Philip Benstead wrote:...It is not possible for CTC trustees to communicate directly with their constituents.
...

Why not. I would have thought the CTC would provide e-mail addresses to a Councillor (or at least distribute an e-mail on the Councillors behalf). If they don't ... I wonder why.

Ian


Recently three (not me may I say) CTC Trustees have tried but their copy was considered to be too divisive so was stop by the chair.
The chair comments stated that the trustee need to adhere to collective decision making.
This not unusual the CTC he has always held all the lever of communication.
I did not even try to send a message I knew this would happen.
...

I find that quite disgraceful. Glad I left.

Ian

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gaz
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Re: Requesting help from CTC members

Postby gaz » 8 Dec 2015, 8:13pm

Philip Benstead wrote:... I was wondering if other members would be interested in forwarding emails to other CTC members concerning the direction of the CTC. ...

Funnily enough, from e-mails circulated to me I thought that you had already done this :lol: .
There'll be tarmac over, the white cliffs of Dover ...

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Re: Requesting help from CTC members

Postby Psamathe » 8 Dec 2015, 8:17pm

All I can suggest is collect as many e-mail addresses from the local groups (e.g. group contact details often have e-mail addresses) and mailshot them asking them to ask their own members to lobby the CTC National Office to give Councillors access to e-mail distribution, even if they disagree with what is being sent (i.e. does not go along with their "vision").

I'd suspect member groups would get a lot of the active members, maybe those who are likely to vote.

Maybe start a "campaign" through member groups (as above) for a motion at the next AGM (regarding e-mail distribution). Start very early to start getting a groundswell of support.

Ian

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robgul
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Re: Requesting help from CTC members

Postby robgul » 8 Dec 2015, 8:22pm

Recently three (not me may I say) CTC Trustees have tried but their copy was considered to be too divisive so was stop by the chair.
The chair comments stated that the trustee need to adhere to collective decision making.
This not unusual the CTC he has always held all the lever of communication.
I did not even try to send a message I knew this would happen.
...[/quote]
I find that quite disgraceful. Glad I left.

Ian[/quote]

Indeed, it's all gone to the dogs - a couple of weeks ago I wrote asking for my membership to be cancelled and a refund on the remainder of my annual subs - to my amazement I got an immediate reply and 8/12ths of my money back :-)

My TP insurance needs, the ONLY benefit (other than riding with friends), are more than covered by my household policy.

Rob
E2E http://www.cycle-endtoend.org.uk
HoECC http://www.heartofenglandcyclingclub.org.uk
Cytech accredited mechanic . . . and woodworker

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gaz
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Re: Requesting help from CTC members

Postby gaz » 8 Dec 2015, 8:34pm

Psamathe wrote:All I can suggest is collect as many e-mail addresses from the local groups (e.g. group contact details often have e-mail addresses) and mailshot them asking them to ask their own members to lobby the CTC National Office to give Councillors access to e-mail distribution, even if they disagree with what is being sent (i.e. does not go along with their "vision"). ...

You are suggesting that a Councillor simply goes down a level, using local e-mail lists rather than national e-mail lists. Those are still CTC e-mail lists, covered by the same policies.

Existing CTC policy is that CTC e-mail addresses cannot be used by Councillors to circulate disagreement with CTC policy, or to put it another way ... there's a hole in my bucket, dear Liza, dear Liza :wink: .
There'll be tarmac over, the white cliffs of Dover ...

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Philip Benstead
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Re: Requesting help from CTC members

Postby Philip Benstead » 8 Dec 2015, 8:40pm

gaz wrote:
Psamathe wrote:All I can suggest is collect as many e-mail addresses from the local groups (e.g. group contact details often have e-mail addresses) and mailshot them asking them to ask their own members to lobby the CTC National Office to give Councillors access to e-mail distribution, even if they disagree with what is being sent (i.e. does not go along with their "vision"). ...

You are suggesting that a Councillor simply goes down a level, using local e-mail lists rather than national e-mail lists. Those are still CTC e-mail lists, covered by the same policies.

Existing CTC policy is that CTC e-mail addresses cannot be used by Councillors to circulate disagreement with CTC policy, or to put it another way ... there's a hole in my bucket, dear Liza, dear Liza :wink: .


You would be able to send emails to friends who are CTC members who could send emails to other CTC friends , this would not be using CTC lists. In this way a large number of active and committed CTC members could be reached and who would be likely to have views on the direction of the CTC and would support motion to the AGM on the 9 May 2016
Philip Benstead | Life Member Former CTC Councillor/Trustee
Organizing events and representing cyclist in southeast since 1988
Bikeability Instructor/Mechanic

Psamathe
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Re: Requesting help from CTC members

Postby Psamathe » 8 Dec 2015, 8:43pm

gaz wrote:
Psamathe wrote:All I can suggest is collect as many e-mail addresses from the local groups (e.g. group contact details often have e-mail addresses) and mailshot them asking them to ask their own members to lobby the CTC National Office to give Councillors access to e-mail distribution, even if they disagree with what is being sent (i.e. does not go along with their "vision"). ...

You are suggesting that a Councillor simply goes down a level, using local e-mail lists rather than national e-mail lists. Those are still CTC e-mail lists, covered by the same policies.

Existing CTC policy is that CTC e-mail addresses cannot be used by Councillors to circulate disagreement with CTC policy, or to put it another way ... there's a hole in my bucket, dear Liza, dear Liza :wink: .

I was thinking e.g. http://www.norfolkctc.org.uk/?q=content/norwich-contacts which has a number of contact e-mail addresses (@aol.com, @btinternet.com, @gmail.com, etc.) and they are published on a public web site so I don't see how CTC can do anything to stop anybody e-mailing those individuals. Maybe if there are non-allowed e-mail addresses the contact e-mail could explain "We cannot contact XYZ about this issue so if you could pass on this to other groups that might be interested ...".

But I'm just thinking aloud here (trying to come up with some suggestions). Maybe even ask people who would be prepared to pass a letter to their group organiser to PM you with their/a suitable allowed e-mail address.

Ian

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gaz
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Re: Requesting help from CTC members

Postby gaz » 8 Dec 2015, 9:23pm

Leaving aside the Councillors Code of Conduct (which could probably be read either way on such matters), IMO the issue is not one of sending an e-mail to a MG secretary but that of the MG secretary forwarding the e-mail.

MG officers are custodians of CTC e-mail lists, for forwarding official CTC communications. If a Councillor is aware that their e-mail is not approved should they be seeking to forward it in this manner?

I've no idea what guidance is given to MG officers.

There may be "grey" areas. Again leaving the Councillors Code of Conduct aside, if a Councillor knows a personal e-mail of a MG secretary they could send an e-mail to them as a "friend". That MG secretary would be at liberty to send it on to any CTC members on their personal "friends" e-mail list. I believe that is the mechanism that led me to receive one myself.

Such a method may be effective to circulate messages around "friends" who are active riders in MGs. The majority of the membership have no connection to MGs and are not going to be reached. It would be hard for me to consider the responses representative of the membership as a whole, although that in itself is not grounds to dismiss the views expressed.

Council has the authority under the Mem and Arts to vary (remove) electoral boundaries and the numbers on Council (within limits) without needing any further mandate from the membership.
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Re: Requesting help from CTC members

Postby Psamathe » 8 Dec 2015, 9:32pm

gaz wrote:Leaving aside the Councillors Code of Conduct (which could probably be read either way on such matters), IMO the issue is not one of sending an e-mail to a MG secretary but that of the MG secretary forwarding the e-mail.

MG officers are custodians of CTC e-mail lists, for forwarding official CTC communications. If a Councillor is aware that their e-mail is not approved should they be seeking to forward it in this manner?

I've no idea what guidance is given to MG officers.

There may be "grey" areas. Again leaving the Councillors Code of Conduct aside, if a Councillor knows a personal e-mail of a MG secretary they could send an e-mail to them as a "friend". That MG secretary would be at liberty to send it on to any CTC members on their personal "friends" e-mail list. I believe that is the mechanism that led me to receive one myself.

Such a method may be effective to circulate messages around "friends" who are active riders in MGs. The majority of the membership have no connection to MGs and are not going to be reached. It would be hard for me to consider the responses representative of the membership as a whole, although that in itself is not grounds to dismiss the views expressed.

Council has the authority under the Mem and Arts to vary (remove) electoral boundaries and the numbers on Council (within limits) without needing any further mandate from the membership.

My thought was (maybe wrong) but the MG Officer(s) could raise it at a meeting and ask people who agreed to distribute it further and wider. In getting a letter to a member group you would be getting your proposal to those members who are more likely to be voting. Far from 100% but I'd suspect that those active in MGs are probably more concerned about the CTC that those who only notice the Direct Debit after it's too late and convince themselves the 3rd party insurance justifies the cost.

Ian

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Re: Requesting help from CTC members

Postby PH » 8 Dec 2015, 9:48pm

Distributing a personal opinion among friends in the same group is one thing, distributing it to all those CTC members in a groups geographical area would be little more than spam and IMO a misuse of the email lists provided to the Member Group.
Very few members of the CTC either view or contribute to this or other forums.
As the result there is no way to gauge the support for the current direction of the CTC.

Even those CTC members who are on this and other forums show very little interest in participating in any debate about any of the matters you raise. I think this is as good a gauge as you're ever likely to get.

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Re: Requesting help from CTC members

Postby fishfright » 8 Dec 2015, 10:01pm

I'm beginning to wonder who the CTC is for ? Its not looking like its for the members anymore so it's time follow the money i suppose. Is it possible to see the compensation packages for the Trustees and top level management ?

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Re: Requesting help from CTC members

Postby gaz » 8 Dec 2015, 10:28pm

CTC trustees are unpaid volunteers. They can claim reasonable expenses. More here: http://www.ctc.org.uk/about-ctc/ctc-nat ... ouncillors

When the CEO role was advertised in 2011 the salary was shown as £70,000pa. I do not have a more up to date figure.

As to who CTC is for, the Charitable Objects are set out in the current Mem and Arts: http://www.ctc.org.uk/sites/default/fil ... ay2012.pdf
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