Why does the CTC not promote Sportives?

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freiston
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Re: Why does the CTC not promote Sportives?

Postby freiston » 10 Feb 2016, 1:04am

CyclingOptometrist on page 1 wrote:Mmm, seems this has divided opinion between the old guard and the free thinkers.

Wow! No agenda or bias there then - just an open mind freely thinking?
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Re: Why does the CTC not promote Sportives?

Postby eileithyia » 10 Feb 2016, 6:04am

Had i not been working last weekend i could have ridden 60=ish miles in Cheshire for the princely sum of £30 and a bit of 'free' food, a few days earlier I rode 50+ miles in Cheshire for £10, the cost of lunch and tea, both would have been in company, one with friends one with those who just want to get around as fast as possible not care whether you were still with them or not.........

Have ridden many CTC events; Audax, Reliability Rides, and 75k reliability to celebrate DA's 75 years......... none cost what it costs to ride a sportive, then I can send the difference to a chosen charity and ensure it gets to the charity.
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Re: Why does the CTC not promote Sportives?

Postby mattsccm » 10 Feb 2016, 7:00am

I think that certain people have decided that younger people don't ride bikes any more. I doubt thats the case, they about out there every weekend playing in the mud and jumping off cliffs. It's far more exciting to a youngster, is a nice continuation from normal kids riding, perceived to be safer by parents and has a much more glamorous image. The newcomers to road riding then appear from this group when they don't bounce any more. I doubt that cycling is losing numbers somehow.
Yes the ,CTC could make money from a sportive, if it finds a gap in the saturated market and has a cheap way of organising it. Paying someone eats the profit.

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Re: Why does the CTC not promote Sportives?

Postby Mick F » 10 Feb 2016, 7:22am

beardy wrote:But it is a Charity, it is supposed to support cycling not cash in on it.
Or support cyclists, not profit from them.
This has answered the OP question beautifully.
Mick F. Cornwall

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Re: Why does the CTC not promote Sportives?

Postby TonyR » 10 Feb 2016, 7:51am

CyclingOptometrist wrote:How sad and myopic.


Probably presbyopic actually :wink:

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Re: Why does the CTC not promote Sportives?

Postby TonyR » 10 Feb 2016, 7:58am

beardy wrote:You are seeing what you expected to see rather than what is there.

Our group likes to see new members. One of the things that those new members have in common with the old members is that they are not, and do not seek to be, racing or sports cyclists.


That is called selection bias. You are only seeing new members like that because potential new members in other styles of cycling wouldn't approach you. But the CTC should be there to serve all cyclists not just those in its historical image. And if the CTC centrally support all forms of memberships, who knows, in a few years you may have a local off-road, touring, racing, audax, sportif and BMX rides.

Local to me the CTC has road, off-road and new member rides. And I cycle commute, tour, off-road, mountain bike, leisure, utlitly, tandem and all sorts of other styles of cycling although I am starting to think I'm perhaps too old to ever be able to learn to master my unicycle.

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Re: Why does the CTC not promote Sportives?

Postby mjr » 10 Feb 2016, 8:30am

I'm surprised by sportive popularity. Paying over £50 to ride at risk of being taken off by all the gear and no idea novices, just because someone hung a few signs and got some food out of the shop.

I'm surprised British Cycling back them as they do. BC claims to be worried about the excluded minorities, but then force sportive events to be no helmet=no ride, recumbent =no ride, e bike=no ride and even allows ill/disabled =no ride. This is the dirty little secret of sportive events that ought to be exposed, denounced and challenged.

It looks like Audax promotion is a big opportunity for CTC or whatever it's becoming, but the rumoured renames suggest that mimicking BC is more likely than innovation.
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Re: Why does the CTC not promote Sportives?

Postby Vorpal » 10 Feb 2016, 8:41am

mjr wrote:and even allows ill/disabled =no ride.

Other that the usual 'consult your GP, if...' sort of warnings, where does this come form?
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Re: Why does the CTC not promote Sportives?

Postby roubaixtuesday » 10 Feb 2016, 8:47am

mjr wrote:I'm surprised British Cycling back them as they do. BC claims to be worried about the excluded minorities, but then force sportive events to be no helmet=no ride, recumbent =no ride, e bike=no ride and even allows ill/disabled =no ride. This is the dirty little secret of sportive events that ought to be exposed, denounced and challenged..


I'm sure you've got sound grounds for this claim, but I'm very surprised. I've done a sportive on a Tandem, no questions asked, nothing but encouragement, so I don't see why the other categories would be an issue. Perhaps the rules are mostly ignored. I'm not a fan of helmets generally, but for a ride with perhaps thousands of rather inexperienced riders and a few fast descents with some people trying for a time, I can see some logic there.

mjr wrote:It looks like Audax promotion is a big opportunity for CTC or whatever it's becoming, but the rumoured renames suggest that mimicking BC is more likely than innovation.


Yes, organised rides have massively increased in popularity. Surely CTC and Audax, between them probably the biggest backers of organised rides in the country, have something to gain...

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Re: Why does the CTC not promote Sportives?

Postby robgul » 10 Feb 2016, 8:54am

CyclingOptometrist wrote:Profit is not a dirty word. Charities raise money to further their respective causes.

The CTC is not attracting younger riders in my area. The format clearly does not appeal to them.
The fact is, there are hundreds of young riders out there riding Sportives.

It seems to me that you have your head in the sand. The CTC and its members need to adopt and adapt.


Having run cycling events over the last 10 years that have raised over £750,000 (of which about 60% was from "sportives") for a real charity (Macmillan Cancer Support) I am perhaps qualified to comment.

The Phil Liggett CTC ride mentioned up-thread was a very popular event but seemed to disappear when Phil left his CTC role (was he patron or similar?)

Sportives are not all commercial as the earlier rather ranty post suggests - in fact our findings are that there is a rebellion amongst sportive riders as they are being asked to pay more and more for entry - and even more so for the quasi-charity events that demand a high entry fee (none of which goes to the charity) and then donations/sponsorship on top [Action Medical if you're wondering]

Although we are taking a break from the events this year, we found a formula that seemed to please upwards of 800 riders twice a year - a volunteer organised event - riders were pleased to enter knowing that the majority of their fee was a donation ... and not only that the post-ride massage girls would raise £500+ in the collection buckets.

So it can be done BUT the type of rider we have seen is very much not a CTC prospect for all sorts of reasons - nor does BC seem to feature on their radar. For the most part they are time-poor (and sometimes cash-rich) people that want to ride their bike on a nice event with good organisation (and signage :wink: ) and then get back home to their family. They have no interest in campaigning ... or touring for that matter.

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Re: Why does the CTC not promote Sportives?

Postby pete75 » 10 Feb 2016, 10:24am

Peterborough 5x5 Challenge run three reasonably priced sportives during the year. They are all to raise money for fairly local causes, well organised, cost £15 to enter and have very good cakes at the end. The first one this year starts from Bourne Grammar school and is on the 10th of April.


http://www.peterborough5x5challenge.org/index.html

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Re: Why does the CTC not promote Sportives?

Postby geocycle » 10 Feb 2016, 10:51am

There are sportives and sportives. I'd quite like CTC to do something at cost price between spit and sawdust audax and glam sportive to attract those who might have done a charity ride but are put off by racing wannabees. For example an open event as a feature of the York weekend, or something on the back of the Tour de Yorkshire. Personally, I'd not be interested but there are many that would and the publicity would be good.

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Re: Why does the CTC not promote Sportives?

Postby TonyR » 10 Feb 2016, 12:40pm

I will do my annual sportive this year although they call it a randonnee. Its 70 miles round the Isle of Wight, thousands turn out to ride it, entry is free and the local community turn out to feed and water it (Bembridge School being the highlight) It would be great if the CTC supported more events of this type that attract everyone from racers to families to kids.

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Re: Why does the CTC not promote Sportives?

Postby Vorpal » 10 Feb 2016, 12:43pm

geocycle wrote:There are sportives and sportives. I'd quite like CTC to do something at cost price between spit and sawdust audax and glam sportive to attract those who might have done a charity ride but are put off by racing wannabees. For example an open event as a feature of the York weekend, or something on the back of the Tour de Yorkshire. Personally, I'd not be interested but there are many that would and the publicity would be good.

But they already do these things. Have a look at the links I added above. Or go to http://www.ctc.org.uk/uk-cycling-events and find something else that suits. There are a lot of rides there, suiting a wide variety of abilities.
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Re: Why does the CTC not promote Sportives?

Postby mjr » 10 Feb 2016, 12:47pm

Vorpal wrote:
mjr wrote:and even allows ill/disabled =no ride.

Other that the usual 'consult your GP, if...' sort of warnings, where does this come form?

The Tour of the Broads :-( previously mentioned in viewtopic.php?f=49&t=102747 (without naming them when I was waiting for them to reply - I've given up waiting).

BrianFox wrote:I'm sure you've got sound grounds for this claim, but I'm very surprised. I've done a sportive on a Tandem, no questions asked, nothing but encouragement, so I don't see why the other categories would be an issue. Perhaps the rules are mostly ignored.

If they're mostly ignored, then that could cause an almighty scandal when a forbidden participant is involved in a collision and BC invalidates the organiser's insurance for non-compliance with their "guidelines" (which are actually a condition of insurance).

Tandems are allowed without restriction, but the other categories I mentioned aren't, and handcycles are advised(?) to fly a leper flag.

I'm not a fan of helmets generally, but for a ride with perhaps thousands of rather inexperienced riders and a few fast descents with some people trying for a time, I can see some logic there.

If there is the least bit of truth in either the risk-compensation or impaired-decision-making hypotheses, then it's completely illogical to force their use and thereby cause more crashes.

Yes, organised rides have massively increased in popularity. Surely CTC and Audax, between them probably the biggest backers of organised rides in the country, have something to gain...

Is that true, given that BC has 70,000 at the RideLondon FreeCycle, 20,000+ at RideLondon 100, 8,000 at Tour of Cambridgeshire, plus all the Sky Rides and Ride Socials in addition to all the spotives?

Vorpal wrote:But they already do these things. Have a look at the links I added above. Or go to http://www.ctc.org.uk/uk-cycling-events and find something else that suits. There are a lot of rides there, suiting a wide variety of abilities.

It'd be nice if that listed even all the main CTC group rides... even better if it were open like BC's www.ridesocial.co.uk
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