CTC merchandise

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mjr
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Re: CTC merchandise

Postby mjr » 19 Feb 2016, 12:43pm

gaz wrote:IMO the decision to rebrand as "Cycling UK" is likely to have been subject to confidentiality clauses, nevertheless it has leaked out. There was mention on here of the name before the trademark registration was uncovered.

So once the confidentiality clauses have failed and the rumour mill is in full swing it's damage limitation time, the situation has become a firefight and the original timetable to inform the MGs and others before the public announcement is out the window.

That doesn't seem likely because surely people know that trademark registrations are public (what would be the point otherwise?) and it's likely that some of those who monitor registrations as part of their jobs are likely to be CTC members or sympathisers?

As soon as that registration was published, WACU was going to be public knowledge and that must have been part of the timetable, so it seems more likely that there was no intent to inform MGs beforehand.
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Re: CTC merchandise

Postby gaz » 19 Feb 2016, 1:45pm

mjr wrote:... As soon as that registration was published, WACU was going to be public knowledge and that must have been part of the timetable, so it seems more likely that there was no intent to inform MGs beforehand.


Part of the planning must have been consideration of the risk of "leaks" and that the trademark might be "leaked" before it could be registered. The more people who became aware of the new brand the greater the chance of a "leak".

The original timetable may have considered the risk of a "leak" resulting directly from the registration of the trademark as less than the risk of not protecting that trademark before it was circulated "confidentially" and "leaked".

There is also the possibility that the registration has taken place ahead of the original schedule as a result of the "leak", in order to gain legal protection for the brand.

I can only speculate on the matter.
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Re: CTC merchandise

Postby mjr » 19 Feb 2016, 1:53pm

gaz wrote:The original timetable may have considered the risk of a "leak" resulting directly from the registration of the trademark as less than the risk of not protecting that trademark before it was circulated "confidentially" and "leaked".

A trademark is protected whether or not it's registered. Registration just makes some things easier and allows you to offload some of the enforcement costs onto the state.

It'll be interesting whether any of the other variations on "Cycling UK" claim prior ownership (although not registration AFAICT)
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Re: CTC merchandise

Postby Psamathe » 19 Feb 2016, 2:29pm

mjr wrote:That doesn't seem likely because surely people know that trademark registrations are public (what would be the point otherwise?) and it's likely that some of those who monitor registrations as part of their jobs are likely to be CTC members or sympathisers?

As soon as that registration was published, WACU was going to be public knowledge and that must have been part of the timetable, so it seems more likely that there was no intent to inform MGs beforehand.

Normally staff at the sort of (salary) level in National Office would be expected to be capable when it comes to managing such things. There are consultants around to help but should have been handled fine by staff.

The thing is that just because somebody who is part of a Member Group does not know about it in advance does not mean the Member Group has not been pre-briefed, etc. well in advance. Only few individuals will have been briefed. It will not have been overlooked and will have been done in plenty of time.

(Noting that I don't know what roles people on this forum might play in the various Member Groups around).

Ian

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Re: CTC merchandise

Postby mjr » 19 Feb 2016, 4:08pm

Psamathe wrote:The thing is that just because somebody who is part of a Member Group does not know about it in advance does not mean the Member Group has not been pre-briefed, etc. well in advance. Only few individuals will have been briefed. It will not have been overlooked and will have been done in plenty of time.

If that's the case, then I think there may be even worse backlash from members against the leaderships of MGs who deliberately sold them CTC-branded merchandise while knowing it would be out-of-date within a few rides.

So I hope you can understand why I prefer to think that the MG leadership actions were in good faith and they are as surprised as everyone else.
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Re: CTC merchandise

Postby Psamathe » 19 Feb 2016, 4:11pm

mjr wrote:
Psamathe wrote:The thing is that just because somebody who is part of a Member Group does not know about it in advance does not mean the Member Group has not been pre-briefed, etc. well in advance. Only few individuals will have been briefed. It will not have been overlooked and will have been done in plenty of time.

If that's the case, then I think there may be even worse backlash from members against the leaderships of MGs who deliberately sold them CTC-branded merchandise while knowing it would be out-of-date within a few rides.

So I hope you can understand why I prefer to think that the MG leadership actions were in good faith and they are as surprised as everyone else.

I don't have personal knowledge of individuals who have been pre-briefed. Just that even the most disorganised operation would never fail to do the pre-briefing, etc. I may be critical of the CTC but there is no way they could be so incompetent as to not do the appropriate pre-briefing of e.g. individuals in Member Groups.

Ian

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Re: CTC merchandise

Postby AlaninWales » 19 Feb 2016, 4:22pm

I suspect that Ian may have a gap between his molars, through which his tongue is poking whilst he types? :)

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Re: CTC merchandise

Postby Psamathe » 19 Feb 2016, 4:28pm

AlaninWales wrote:I suspect that Ian may have a gap between his molars, through which his tongue is poking whilst he types? :)

Ironically, this morning I got the last of my molar implants teeth fitted ... so no longer any gaps (but the gum is really hurting at the moment, now the injection is wearing off).

Otherwise my comments are based on how one does things in business. There are some things that you just don't overlook.

Ian

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Re: CTC merchandise

Postby PH » 19 Feb 2016, 5:03pm

Psamathe wrote:I don't have personal knowledge of individuals who have been pre-briefed. Just that even the most disorganised operation would never fail to do the pre-briefing, etc. I may be critical of the CTC but there is no way they could be so incompetent as to not do the appropriate pre-briefing of e.g. individuals in Member Groups.
Ian

I am a member of the committee of CTC Derby & Burton, treasurer until stepping down last October to take on the role of publicity and promotion. In one role or another I have been involved with all the spending on our branded material for the last few years. Including the design of stickers and promotion/business cards and the new website launched last year. I knew no more than any other reader of this forum about this re-branding. The first official notification I received was a copy of the statement posted here yesterday.
But, with the statement from David Cox today that MGs will not be required to change their name I'm a lot less bothered about it today than I was yesterday.
Paul Hilditch
www.derbyctc.org.uk

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Re: CTC merchandise

Postby Psamathe » 19 Feb 2016, 6:15pm

PH wrote:
Psamathe wrote:I don't have personal knowledge of individuals who have been pre-briefed. Just that even the most disorganised operation would never fail to do the pre-briefing, etc. I may be critical of the CTC but there is no way they could be so incompetent as to not do the appropriate pre-briefing of e.g. individuals in Member Groups.
Ian

I am a member of the committee of CTC Derby & Burton, treasurer until stepping down last October to take on the role of publicity and promotion. In one role or another I have been involved with all the spending on our branded material for the last few years. Including the design of stickers and promotion/business cards and the new website launched last year. I knew no more than any other reader of this forum about this re-branding. The first official notification I received was a copy of the statement posted here yesterday.
But, with the statement from David Cox today that MGs will not be required to change their name I'm a lot less bothered about it today than I was yesterday.
Paul Hilditch
http://www.derbyctc.org.uk

Except to benefit from the PR (and presumable there is PR to be associated with the new name at some point) you would need to rebrand. WACU generates local interest so people look for their local WACU group and fine it's 40 miles away - never mind, nice idea but just not feasible so nothing happens. Oh dear they've overlooked this CTC in their home town (whatever CTC is - they are looking for WACU).

You may not be "required" to rebrand but if this name change is going to be such an opportunity (as we are told it will be) you will "need" to rebrand to take advantage.

Ian

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Re: CTC merchandise

Postby PH » 19 Feb 2016, 7:11pm

None of us know the future of course, what today's statement says is that it will be a local decision, which IMO is what it should be. I don't recall us ever having a new rider who came looking for a CTC group, usually they've been looking for a club to ride with and we've introduced them to CTC. Worth remembering that the greatest increase has been in those riding with affiliated groups, none of which have CTC in their name. Both MGs and affiliated clubs can be found through the national website and I'm not expecting that to change, we also get lists of all members in our area so we make ourselves known to them. From a local point of view, these changes may not have the negative impact some were predicting.

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Re: CTC merchandise

Postby GPC » 19 Feb 2016, 9:29pm

I agree Paul, so few folk (particualrly those new to cycling) had heard of the CTC that the name was virtually irrelevant anyway. Local groups have had their own idiosyncratic ID for years anyway. At a recent member meeting here a person here (holding office) was handing out old WW embroidered logos. There has not been a formal line on kit so what is the current fuss. I suspect a lot who want to be outraged will be. The change of name and massive change of direction for British Cycling from a strictly racing focussed group to include leisure and recreational riding has been hugely successful for them, we need to recapture some of that initiative.