CTC CHANGE OF NAME

Barred1
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Re: CTC CHANGE OF NAME

Post by Barred1 »

TonyR wrote:
Barred1 wrote:Come on - give Tuohy a chance, he's never had a job in the real world of business - throw him a rope, he might use it :twisted: :twisted:

B1


But he has worked in the charity sector for many years, ten of them heading up charities before taking over at the CTC. He is also a keen club cyclist. Not sure what else you are looking for in the head of a cycling charity unless you are hoping to turn it into a cycling business instead in which case you would need someone with business experience. But having worked in both myself, there is a big difference between running a business and running a charity.

http://www.ctc.org.uk/news/ctc-announces-paul-tuohy-ceo


The point was about behaviour which would not be acceptable in the business world - nor should it be in the third sector .... but it seems that perhaps it is?

B1
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Re: CTC CHANGE OF NAME

Post by Regulator »

TonyR wrote:You probably won't be surprised to know that I think it needed to be said. I am not sure what happened with Philip but something did because he went from being a Councillor supportive of what was happening - as the records Gaz dug out show - until he failed to get re-elected and now seems on a campaign to block the things he was part of starting and challenge the results of the election. I'm not even actually clear what he is hoping to achieve - re-election? A change of the name to what? The name remaining the same despite him helping start the name change process? If I knew what his proposals were it might be different but he seems more focussed on what he doesn't want to be rather than what he does.


I think you're being somewhat simplistic and disingenuous. Philip has been pointing out the governance issues with CTC for some time - certainly long before the last election (an election where the nominations process frankly smells), as have many other members and former councillors. The process for changing the name of the organisation has been, at the best, opaque and shows that Council were not confident that they could convince the membership.

I hope that Philip succeeds in getting his whole poll of the club - but I doubt that the Chair or the Chief Executive will agree to the poll being overseen by the ERS - as they'd be too scared of losing.
TonyR
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Re: CTC CHANGE OF NAME

Post by TonyR »

Barred1 wrote:
TonyR wrote:
Barred1 wrote:Come on - give Tuohy a chance, he's never had a job in the real world of business - throw him a rope, he might use it :twisted: :twisted:

B1


But he has worked in the charity sector for many years, ten of them heading up charities before taking over at the CTC. He is also a keen club cyclist. Not sure what else you are looking for in the head of a cycling charity unless you are hoping to turn it into a cycling business instead in which case you would need someone with business experience. But having worked in both myself, there is a big difference between running a business and running a charity.

http://www.ctc.org.uk/news/ctc-announces-paul-tuohy-ceo


The point was about behaviour which would not be acceptable in the business world - nor should it be in the third sector .... but it seems that perhaps it is?

B1


No, your point as can be easily seen from the posts above was that he didn't have experience in the world of business. And no a business would not take it lying down if they were under attack from agenda activists. Look at the recent Dupont/Trian Peltz battle for example.
Psamathe
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Re: CTC CHANGE OF NAME

Post by Psamathe »

TonyR wrote:
Barred1 wrote:
TonyR wrote:...
But he has worked in the charity sector for many years, ten of them heading up charities before taking over at the CTC. He is also a keen club cyclist. Not sure what else you are looking for in the head of a cycling charity unless you are hoping to turn it into a cycling business instead in which case you would need someone with business experience. But having worked in both myself, there is a big difference between running a business and running a charity.

http://www.ctc.org.uk/news/ctc-announces-paul-tuohy-ceo


The point was about behaviour which would not be acceptable in the business world - nor should it be in the third sector .... but it seems that perhaps it is?

B1

No, your point as can be easily seen from the posts above was that he didn't have experience in the world of business. And no a business would not take it lying down if they were under attack from agenda activists. Look at the recent Dupont/Trian Peltz battle for example.

A business would argue the case, not attack the person (something this forum also requires). A professional person would only argue the case. Personal attacks demean the organisation as well as the author. Somebody on such a high salary would know better - it's their job to.

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Re: CTC CHANGE OF NAME

Post by admin »

OK, folks, please can we avoid the personal comments?

By all means discuss the pros and cons of the new name and branding (which we haven't yet seen, other than a basic logo), but don't turn this into a name-calling session.

Otherwise I might have to protect my legal position as website host by letting The Moderators loose on this thread! ;)
Bicycler
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Re: CTC CHANGE OF NAME

Post by Bicycler »

I can imagine it now: CTC CEO sues CTC Forum :lol:
Barred1
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Re: CTC CHANGE OF NAME

Post by Barred1 »

Bicycler wrote:I can imagine it now: CTC CEO sues CTC Forum :lol:


..... if he can make a statement on here - even through an intermediary - an apology would be in order.

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Re: CTC CHANGE OF NAME

Post by Regulator »

admin wrote:OK, folks, please can we avoid the personal comments?

By all means discuss the pros and cons of the new name and branding (which we haven't yet seen, other than a basic logo), but don't turn this into a name-calling session.

Otherwise I might have to protect my legal position as website host by letting The Moderators loose on this thread! ;)



I did wonder whether that was the reason the CEO deleted his attack on Philip Benstead - it was potentially libellous.

Of course, as a charity, CTC/WACU would be on a sticky wicket funding a libel defence for its CEO - or funding him trying to sue someone.

Most of the comments on here would be covered by 'fair comment' anyway. I would think that if CTC are suggesting otherwise, they're trying to scare you into toeing the party line... bullying is their stock in trade.
Last edited by Regulator on 23 Feb 2016, 10:10am, edited 2 times in total.
Psamathe
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Re: CTC CHANGE OF NAME

Post by Psamathe »

admin wrote:OK, folks, please can we avoid the personal comments?

By all means discuss the pros and cons of the new name and branding (which we haven't yet seen, other than a basic logo), but don't turn this into a name-calling session.

Otherwise I might have to protect my legal position as website host by letting The Moderators loose on this thread! ;)

So we are not allowed to post comments directed at an individual yet the CEO is allowed to launch into personal attacks. Balanced and fair ?

The "personal comments" are just responding to a personal attack made by an individual - which seems perfectly reasonable (or the CEO can dish out but can't take people responding in a fair and balanced way)..

Long time passed and no public apology - which reflects even worse on the individual.

(And whilst I am not a member of other cycle forums, I have recently found some that are also discussing the CEO's post along similar lines. It seems a lot of people are quite "disappointed" by his behaviour).

Ian
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Re: CTC CHANGE OF NAME

Post by Tangled Metal »

Didn't see that LinkedIn comment but if it was up, even for a short time, it was unprofessional.

I don't know the people involved but it seems to me that an ex councillor has an axe to grind and the executive are playing a bit dirty back. Doesn't look good all round. Perhaps time to consider members views. See the real feeling on the issue. Expensive I'm sure but it is a membership based organization afterall.
Psamathe
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Re: CTC CHANGE OF NAME

Post by Psamathe »

Tangled Metal wrote:...
I don't know the people involved but it seems to me that an ex councillor has an axe to grind and the executive are playing a bit dirty back. Doesn't look good all round. Perhaps time to consider members views. See the real feeling on the issue. Expensive I'm sure but it is a membership based organization afterall.

I think there are two ways you could look at it. Maybe as you say an ex-councillor with an axe to grind. Or maybe an ex-councillor who feels there are problems with the organisation and is only holding the organisation to it's own rules. Either way, to my mind, motivation is irrelevant - he is just holding the organisation to account and it's own rules and procedures. And if the organisation is not happy about that it kind of reflects badly on the organisation. And if the organisation starts launching personal attacks because they are being held to account ... time for some major changes in that organisation.

Either way, the unprofessional personal attack would in most sectors result in resignations (and not from uninvolved 3rd parties).

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Re: CTC CHANGE OF NAME

Post by Si »

So we are not allowed to post comments directed at an individual yet the CEO is allowed to launch into personal attacks. Balanced and fair ?


Paul Touey has made no personal attacks on this forum as far as I'm aware, if he did then they would be moderated same as anyone else's.
The quote of his comments was placed here by the person who they were about so I hardly think they merit moderation.

Anyone is more than welcome to post personal attacks on other parts of the internet, just as it has been pointed out that PT has...believe it or not, we do not moderate those non-forum parts of the internet.

I hope that you are able to understand the difference between this forum, and the rest of the internet, and thus answer your own question with: "yes, balanced and fair".
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Philip Benstead
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Re: CTC CHANGE OF NAME

Post by Philip Benstead »

Tangled Metal wrote:Didn't see that LinkedIn comment but if it was up, even for a short time, it was unprofessional.

I don't know the people involved but it seems to me that an ex councillor has an axe to grind and the executive are playing a bit dirty back. Doesn't look good all round. Perhaps time to consider members views. See the real feeling on the issue. Expensive I'm sure but it is a membership based organization afterall.


Message from the Chair: Rebranding Update

It has been brought to my attention that CTC member and former Councillor Philip Benstead has approached local group Secretaries and other members asking for support for a poll of the whole membership about the decision to rebrand. It is up to members whether they wish to seek a poll – the charity’s articles of association provide for a poll where 200 members wish to challenge a resolution of Council. However, the last time we conducted a poll of the whole club, the cost of the process was approximately £14,000. In terms of what this means to our charity, that is enough to employ a staff member for over 5 months to offer full time support to Member Groups. Before you commit the charity to that expense, I would like to ensure you have a bit more background information.

What is proposed?

The document I have seen refers to the proposed re-branding in rather confused terms. As set out in our earlier statement here, from our Chief Executive, Paul Tuohy, “Our charity will still legally be registered as the Cyclists’ Touring Club with its charity and company registrations unchanged. The Cyclists’ Touring Club is not being disbanded. In fact, part of the need for this change is because we hope the new brand will enhance our touring offering. The new name (as I’m sure many of you will now have seen) is ‘Cycling UK’ and the brand ‘we are Cycling UK’ will be adopted as a ‘trading name’ of the charity. We are very proud of our heritage and history, and we know that a new name and brand will really help to make our charity even more attractive to many more people.”

By the nature of this information being leaked, our full rebranding has not yet been presented (only the new name and a new logo). While these both form an integral part of our new brand, they will both be used in conjunction with images and editorial in a way that conveys much more than any logo might in isolation. In fact the success of any brand is about how an organisation ‘lives and breathes’ its values through the work that it does.

What does this mean for Member Groups?

CTC Member Groups will not need to change their names, their jerseys or other aspects of their branding unless they want to. Most Member Groups have a clear identity and touring orientation that is well recognised by local club cyclists and they will be free to maintain that identity. It will continue to be possible to obtain classic kit and winged wheel badges – and we plan to develop further items drawing on the charity’s rich heritage.

Was the decision endorsed by Council?

Yes. The Council meeting on 23 January resolved to accept the new name and design proposed by the professional team working to reflect the ‘brand essence’ approved by Council at an earlier meeting.

The decision came at the end of an impressively thorough process. While some Council members were initially cautious of the jargon that can surround exercises like this, there was a near-unanimous acknowledgement that the team working with us understood CTC with all its complex heritage and exciting future – and had captured our collective desire to share the joy of cycling.

Only one Council member voted against the proposed rebrand, with 15 voting in favour.

Have steps been taken to protect the new brand?

Yes. We have conducted a robust risk-assessment, protected the new logo as a registered trade mark and taken other steps on the advice of our legal and other advisers.

What does this mean for the winged wheel?

There will be many charities who will be jealous of our rich history and such iconic assets like our winged wheel, and rightly so. We will continue to promote our heritage as a very important part of our wider brand, which will include continuing to use the winged wheel.

Who is Philip Benstead?

Philip Benstead is a long-standing CTC member, volunteer and former Council member. He left Council with effect from 1 January this year, after a contested election in the South East region.

We are particularly disappointed that Philip has chosen to take this action because:

(i) At the CTC Council meeting in January 2014 Philip seconded the motion to go ahead with the work on the rebranding, specifically to: ‘Agree in principle to a trading name change … ‘;

(ii) As a former member of CTC Council Philip should understand that members of Council are obliged to accept collective responsibility, and that responsibility continues to apply in relation to decisions made while he was a trustee;

(iii) Despite the fact that he was until the end of last year a Council member, Philip chose not to raise his concerns about the decision with Council or with the National Office team.

What next?

We will be officially launching our new name and brand in April, through Cycle magazine, our online communications channels and via the media. We will also be back in touch with you before then to provide you with new resources and guidance so that you can maximise this opportunity to raise the profile of [the charity and] your group locally, to help to attract new members and to gain local media interest.

If you have any questions, please contact the communications team on 01483 238 315.

David Cox
Chair, CTC Council


FROM CTC CEO ON Linkedin but now deleated
Philip is very committed to cycling but somewhat misguided. He stood for re-election of the charity board but times have changed and he received the lowest polling ever in CTC's 138 history with 0.2% of the possible share of voters. But that's democracy. It's such a shame he pursues this vendetta against a charity working for cycling that he still promotes for his own self interest. He could do much more positively for cycling if he chose to. Meanwhile next week the Minister for cycling will announce £500,000 to help Cycling Uk get more hard to reach communities to engage with cycling to school, work for pleasure and good health. Just for clarity. The vote for our rebrand was 15-1, not 10 -5.
Philip Benstead | Life Member Former CTC Councillor/Trustee
Organizing events and representing cyclists' in southeast since 1988
Bikeability Instructor/Mechanic
TonyR
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Re: CTC CHANGE OF NAME

Post by TonyR »

Psamathe wrote:The "personal comments" are just responding to a personal attack made by an individual - which seems perfectly reasonable


I'm glad you see it as perfectly reasonable that the CEO should finally respond with some personal comments to a string of attacks on him by Philip on Facebook, this forum, by email and elsewhere.
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Re: CTC CHANGE OF NAME

Post by Regulator »

TonyR wrote:
Psamathe wrote:The "personal comments" are just responding to a personal attack made by an individual - which seems perfectly reasonable


I'm glad you see it as perfectly reasonable that the CEO should finally respond with some personal comments to a string of attacks on him by Philip on Facebook, this forum, by email and elsewhere.



Care to provide some evidence of a "string of attacks on him [Paul Tuohy] by Philip on Facebook, this forum, by email and elsewhere"?

Paul Tuohy's comments were unprofessional and potentially libelous, which is why I'm sure he was advised to delete them. If he had any integrity he'd apologise for them. I don't think anyone will be holding their breath though...
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