CTC CHANGE OF NAME

Psamathe
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Re: CTC CHANGE OF NAME

Postby Psamathe » 25 Feb 2016, 9:43am

Bicycler wrote:...
As I understand it the member groups will continue to operate under the CTC/Cyclists' Touring Club brand as they so choose.

I hope you're right but I have not seen this communicated. I gather that in the recent past NO have been rather keen to discourage older terminology. ...

I completely beggars belief (and I'm still not convinced) that the Member Groups had not been pre-briefed and that the public announcement was news to them as much as everybody else. CTC Management need somebody capable of managing change. The way this has been handled is just amateur and incompetent. Given salaries being handed out they would be expected to have such skills in-house. But is they haven't (and they don't seem to have) then they need to get people in who can do it for them.

Ian

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Re: CTC CHANGE OF NAME

Postby beardy » 25 Feb 2016, 9:59am

That is because you are still looking at it as a members' club with the Sections and DA's being the heart of the club. Now it is a charity and the Member Groups are just a rather minor sideshow, a mere legacy and rather insignificant to the charity's grand project.

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Re: CTC CHANGE OF NAME

Postby meic » 25 Feb 2016, 10:08am

I completely beggars belief (and I'm still not convinced) that the Member Groups had not been pre-briefed and that the public announcement was news to them as much as everybody else.


They could not have told any "officials" in the MGs this and expected them to keep it secret. I dont doubt that my Section's Chairman, Secreteary etc etc would consider their loyalties and priorities to be with us, the Section's riders, rather than the NO. They are volunteers and riders themselves, not NO's paid staff.
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Re: CTC CHANGE OF NAME

Postby Bicycler » 25 Feb 2016, 10:11am

Beardy is right that they are not central to the whole organisation, but I do agree with Ian that it would seem an odd form of branding where the organisation is content for its member groups to carry a different name entirely. It's why I can't see it being tolerated for very long.

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Re: CTC CHANGE OF NAME

Postby TonyR » 25 Feb 2016, 10:49am

Psamathe wrote:I completely beggars belief (and I'm still not convinced) that the Member Groups had not been pre-briefed and that the public announcement was news to them as much as everybody else. CTC Management need somebody capable of managing change. The way this has been handled is just amateur and incompetent. Given salaries being handed out they would be expected to have such skills in-house. But is they haven't (and they don't seem to have) then they need to get people in who can do it for them.



I am sure they are quite well advised by competent people in brand changes. What they didn't allow for is for people going trawling through trademark registrations to let the cat out the bag before the planned launch and a disgruntled ex-Councillor.

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Re: CTC CHANGE OF NAME

Postby PH » 25 Feb 2016, 11:12am

Bicycler wrote:Beardy is right that they are not central to the whole organisation, but I do agree with Ian that it would seem an odd form of branding where the organisation is content for its member groups to carry a different name entirely. It's why I can't see it being tolerated for very long.

There’s 100 something member groups and 600 plus affiliated clubs, the ACs choose their own name and don’t include CTC in the title.
If you want a club’s website to appear in CUK searches it isn’t really hard to implant key words for it to do so. The national website already does a pretty good job of this, try it - google CTC club placename and you’ll get the MGs and the ACs regardless of their name.
I’m never sure how NO view the member groups, I have a suspicion they would be happy for them all to become affiliates and in the long term that might not be a bad thing, but if the transition has been thought through it certainly hasn’t been communicated. ACs have recently been contacted highlighting that they’re the UKs largest network of clubs and offering assistance with publicity, promotion and event organisation, IMO these are getting a better deal than the MGs. There certainly isn’t the close relationship some on here imagine. NO do several things in the area of my MG and the first we know about it is the national announcement, things like appointing a local Cycling Champion, holding workshops, venue for the AGM…

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Re: CTC CHANGE OF NAME

Postby Vorpal » 25 Feb 2016, 11:46am

None of the rebranding was communicated, as far as I know, until someone let the cat out of the bag. I think we still have to wait for the formal, as-planned, announcement at the beginning of April to get all the details.

The refresh the brand thread from 2013 is evidence that it has been on the wind for some time.

What if all the controversy is only here? Are the member groups worried about it? If they know they don't have to change their names? Have forum members talked to CTC members or clubmates about it?
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Re: CTC CHANGE OF NAME

Postby mjr » 25 Feb 2016, 12:06pm

TonyR wrote:I am sure they are quite well advised by competent people in brand changes. What they didn't allow for is for people going trawling through trademark registrations to let the cat out the bag before the planned launch...

With 65,000+ members, it's highly likely that some of them will be working in professions that monitor trademark registrations as a matter of course in order to advise their clients and some of those are likely to mention such shocking news to fellow members and then it's only a matter of time. Maybe they didn't think this through. There seems little excuse for not starting the announcements before it hit the public register.

Bicycler wrote:I can imagine it now: CTC CEO sues CTC Forum :lol:

I think you mean "Wacko - sorry, WACU CEO sues CTC Forum" ;-)

TonyR wrote:But he has worked in the charity sector for many years, ten of them heading up charities before taking over at the CTC. He is also a keen club cyclist. Not sure what else you are looking for in the head of a cycling charity unless you are hoping to turn it into a cycling business instead in which case you would need someone with business experience. But having worked in both myself, there is a big difference between running a business and running a charity.

http://www.ctc.org.uk/news/ctc-announces-paul-tuohy-ceo

Also having worked in both (education charity, years ago), I'd say a charity is still a business, although very different to what most people think of as a business.

And as a stubborn co-op member lately, who kept working for at least one co-op too long after the carpet-baggers had driven the nails in, I have a deep loathing of journeying professional CEOs who seem to flit from one cause to another whenever they get a better offer, willing to do whatever is necessary to secure that better offer, whether it's restructuring, redundancies, rebranding or even selling off assets to the organisation making them that offer. Such CEOs seem to be "professional" in the bad "profess a view mainly because they're paid" sense, rather than being "amateur" in the sense of "loves what they do" which is disproportionately common in co-ops - I can think of several other co-op "lifers" including some who lost one job due to mergers or reorganisation or non-work life changes but reappeared in a very similar job at a sister organisation, almost certainly because it's what they really want to do.

Charities seem to suffer from journeying professionals much more than co-ops, probably because it's harder to marginalise members in a co-op without privatising it, which can cause all sorts of business-threatening consequences, whereas it looks quite easy to do in charities: drive existing members away (cut benefits, mess about with the democracy), push to recruit supporters/affiliates more than members, then - and CTC isn't here yet, but I've been through it elsewhere - one day just declare that all members will be converted to supporters for whatever junk reason you like, burying the route to oppose that as deeply in the fine print as the rules permit.

Is the new CEO a journeying pro? Well, his "key attraction [to his first CEOship at the National Missing Persons Helpline] was the incredible impact their services have on people's lives and the strong dedication of the staff and volunteers" so their board of trustees was restructured and it was rebranded to "Missing People". After a few years, he seems no longer attracted by that, but he "feels passionate about" drug prevention and "attracted new trustees to our already well established board to support us through this next stage in our growth". Then another few years and he moved on again because "Cycling has not just been a part of my life, it’s changed my life" and hey, it's another rebrand and board restructuring. At least the internet archive means that we can evaluate this history, I guess.

And did anyone else's heart sink when they read "keen club cyclist" and the names of a couple of BC clubs? This rebrand is being portrayed by some as an attempt to widen CTC's appeal for the good of cycling, but in my experience, some of the most vociferous opponents of what actually gets more people cycling have been "keen club cyclist"s in BC's roadie stereotype that BC just won't challenge head-on and so BC sets up ghetto groups for others.

Right, time for me to stop ranting my coffee break away and get back to work! ;-)
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Re: CTC CHANGE OF NAME

Postby AndyK » 25 Feb 2016, 1:42pm

TonyR wrote:
Psamathe wrote:I completely beggars belief (and I'm still not convinced) that the Member Groups had not been pre-briefed and that the public announcement was news to them as much as everybody else. CTC Management need somebody capable of managing change. The way this has been handled is just amateur and incompetent. Given salaries being handed out they would be expected to have such skills in-house. But is they haven't (and they don't seem to have) then they need to get people in who can do it for them.



I am sure they are quite well advised by competent people in brand changes. What they didn't allow for is for people going trawling through trademark registrations to let the cat out the bag before the planned launch and a disgruntled ex-Councillor.


<Ahem> I didn't actually go trawling. I'd just read a post by CJ where he asserted that "CTC" wasn't a registered trademark. I didn't think that was right, but I like to check my facts (call me weird if you will). so I went to the IPO website to look up the trademarks owned by the CTC - and there the new logo was, staring me in the face. If they have advisors, frankly they aren't competent or the brand change would have been flagged up to members at a much earlier stage.

I'm on the committee of a Member Group. I contacted HQ before Christmas to ask for an up-to-date high-quality CTC logo and any design guidelines I could use for a banner we were planning to have made for us. The marketing person I spoke to told me there was a rebrand coming up "in the spring" and suggested we might want to hold off on our banner until after that. So that was prior notice of a kind, it just didn't give us any hint of what this rebrand might look like.

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Re: CTC CHANGE OF NAME

Postby Vorpal » 25 Feb 2016, 2:32pm

mjr wrote:With 65,000+ members, it's highly likely that some of them will be working in professions that monitor trademark registrations as a matter of course in order to advise their clients and some of those are likely to mention such shocking news to fellow members and then it's only a matter of time. Maybe they didn't think this through. There seems little excuse for not starting the announcements before it hit the public register.
AndyK wrote:<Ahem> I didn't actually go trawling. I'd just read a post by CJ where he asserted that "CTC" wasn't a registered trademark. I didn't think that was right, but I like to check my facts (call me weird if you will). so I went to the IPO website to look up the trademarks owned by the CTC - and there the new logo was, staring me in the face. If they have advisors, frankly they aren't competent or the brand change would have been flagged up to members at a much earlier stage.

I'm on the committee of a Member Group. I contacted HQ before Christmas to ask for an up-to-date high-quality CTC logo and any design guidelines I could use for a banner we were planning to have made for us. The marketing person I spoke to told me there was a rebrand coming up "in the spring" and suggested we might want to hold off on our banner until after that. So that was prior notice of a kind, it just didn't give us any hint of what this rebrand might look like.

I put the two quotes to gether because the answer is the same for both....
Vorpal wrote:The refresh the brand thread from 2013 is evidence that it has been on the wind for some time.

I suspect, but don't know for certain (I don't have any inside information, or anything) that they submitted the application for trademarks, and then set the announcement date for a time that they were reasonably confident it would have been approved, including the possibility that they would ahve to make changes. If they had made an announcement immediately, they'd look pretty silly if they's had to make any changes, now wouldn't they?

mjr wrote:Charities seem to suffer from journeying professionals much more than co-ops, probably because it's harder to marginalise members in a co-op without privatising it, which can cause all sorts of business-threatening consequences, whereas it looks quite easy to do in charities: drive existing members away (cut benefits, mess about with the democracy), push to recruit supporters/affiliates more than members, then - and CTC isn't here yet, but I've been through it elsewhere - one day just declare that all members will be converted to supporters for whatever junk reason you like, burying the route to oppose that as deeply in the fine print as the rules permit.

Is the new CEO a journeying pro? Well, his "key attraction [to his first CEOship at the National Missing Persons Helpline] was the incredible impact their services have on people's lives and the strong dedication of the staff and volunteers" so their board of trustees was restructured and it was rebranded to "Missing People". After a few years, he seems no longer attracted by that, but he "feels passionate about" drug prevention and "attracted new trustees to our already well established board to support us through this next stage in our growth". Then another few years and he moved on again because "Cycling has not just been a part of my life, it’s changed my life" and hey, it's another rebrand and board restructuring. At least the internet archive means that we can evaluate this history, I guess.

And did anyone else's heart sink when they read "keen club cyclist" and the names of a couple of BC clubs? This rebrand is being portrayed by some as an attempt to widen CTC's appeal for the good of cycling, but in my experience, some of the most vociferous opponents of what actually gets more people cycling have been "keen club cyclist"s in BC's roadie stereotype that BC just won't challenge head-on and so BC sets up ghetto groups for others.


That almsot reads like it's a problem that he isn't a cyclist, but it's a rpoblem that he *is* a cyclist. I'm not sure I follow the argument.

I would think that the ideal person to head up a cycling charity is someone who is a cyclist and also has experience heading up charities? Maybe Paul Touhy was chosen because of his experience leading charities through rebranding?
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
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Psamathe
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Re: CTC CHANGE OF NAME

Postby Psamathe » 25 Feb 2016, 2:37pm

Vorpal wrote:...
I would think that the ideal person to head up a cycling charity is someone who is a cyclist and also has experience heading up charities? Maybe Paul Touhy was chosen because of his experience leading charities through rebranding?

I think that a lot depends on the individual. How open are they to accepting and developing what is there and how determined are they to just do "their vision" irrespective of what is best and what is existing and existing strengths.

So the wrong person who is a cyclist will do more damage than the right person who is not a cyclist.

Ian

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Re: CTC CHANGE OF NAME

Postby gaz » 25 Feb 2016, 2:50pm

Refresh the brand started under Gordon Seabright, it was already in progress when Paul Tuohy was recruited.

CTC has a great deal of experience at being a Cycling Club, it has little experience of being a Charity, that's a significant change. At the time of Paul's recruitment CTC was undergoing a re-branding exercise, the one that is now complete bar the shouting.

Perhaps Council recruited a Charity Sector "change management specialist" to help us manage those changes?
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Re: CTC CHANGE OF NAME

Postby mjr » 25 Feb 2016, 2:56pm

Vorpal wrote:That almsot reads like it's a problem that he isn't a cyclist, but it's a rpoblem that he *is* a cyclist. I'm not sure I follow the argument.

The argument is that his passions seem to change depending on what job he's hired for, making the most of any small link in his background, and that BC club riders are cyclists but few are everyday/ordinary cyclists or see the point of transport cycling - compare the car park full of cars with bike racks on at the many BC club events to the CTC riding from where they live to a mid-morning meet-up point before riding to lunch together - and some BC riders even express horror and confusion at the idea of cycle-touring.

I would think that the ideal person to head up a cycling charity is someone who is a cyclist and also has experience heading up charities? Maybe Paul Touhy was chosen because of his experience leading charities through rebranding?

But who thinks that the ideal person to head up a cycling CLUB is someone from a different club structure that's increasingly overlapping with it? Anyone know what safeguards CTC has against the CEO leading them Stephen-Elop-style into a takeover by BC before 2020?

The Chair said PT was chosen to "bring a new perspective to the next stage in CTC’s development and national recognition" rather than stop developing CTC and start over with a new name... although PT's track record clearly indicates he's a rebooter more than a developer, so who knows if the announcement accurately reflects the selectors' reasons? At least he's not done a merger in his last two postings ;)

gaz wrote:Refresh the brand started under Gordon Seabright, it was already in progress when Paul Tuohy was recruited. ... At the time of Paul's recruitment CTC was undergoing a re-branding exercise, the one that is now complete bar the shouting.

I think gaz knows CTC minutes far better than I do. Is it known at what point the refresh decisively became a reboot?
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Re: CTC CHANGE OF NAME

Postby gaz » 25 Feb 2016, 3:29pm

I would not consider Council Minutes to be a definitive source of information on the matter. Whilst I have been following them for some time what is reported can hardly be described as comprehensive. There is nothing to suggest what other options were on the table at any particular stage.

CTC Council Meeting January 2014, item 14.
Motion:
Agree in principle to a trading name change. Take the necessary action to register and protect the name of National Cycling Association.

To set up a new working group to carry out further work to look at the implementation and wider brand issues as well as any name change. To bring a report back to Council in April for approval.
Proposed by: Barry Flood Seconded by: Philip Benstead
...
Motion Carried

That is the earliest record that, to my mind, suggests "CTC" was highly likely to be ditched. Paul Tuohy became CEO in July 2014.

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Psamathe
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Re: CTC CHANGE OF NAME

Postby Psamathe » 25 Feb 2016, 4:39pm

gaz wrote:...
Perhaps Council recruited a Charity Sector "change management specialist" to help us manage those changes?

I don't know who the "change management specialist" is but they need to start doing something because it's all been a complete mess so far.

From my business days, somebody thee to manage change and it goes like CTC recent history and there would be "staff changes".

Ian