Just 'Re-joined?' after THAT charity conversion debacle

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deliquium
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Just 'Re-joined?' after THAT charity conversion debacle

Postby deliquium » 2 Jan 2017, 4:44pm

I want to support something again :)

Capitulation on my part?

Was a previous CTC member for many years from the early 90s until the nasty business of the charity conversion/coup resulted in cancelling my "membership" in disgust and frustration.

The dust has settled since then? It's very different now = acceptance?

Anyone else come to a similar conclusion?
Last edited by deliquium on 3 Jan 2017, 5:55pm, edited 4 times in total.
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GPC
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Re: Just 'Re-joined?' after THAT charity conversion debacle

Postby GPC » 2 Jan 2017, 5:00pm

Well I never went away am still a member and have purchased a Christmas gift membership for a mate and his family, so he has rejoined after fading away due to kids etc. But now his lad is older he is back into cycling again, so he is a re-joiner I suppose.

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gaz
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Re: Just 'Re-joined?' after THAT charity conversion debacle

Postby gaz » 2 Jan 2017, 7:32pm

Welcome back Paul.

I also never went away.
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Paulatic
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Re: Just 'Re-joined?' after THAT charity conversion debacle

Postby Paulatic » 2 Jan 2017, 7:57pm

In a few weeks time I'll qualify for 'aged' membership. I will reconsider joining at that time.
Reason being we had 27 riders out on New Years Day ride. A joint ride with MG and a local group the turnout was unprecedented.
Fingers crossed that a successful runs list will materialise again. If it does then I'll be a member again :D
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landsurfer
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Re: Just 'Re-joined?' after THAT charity conversion debacle

Postby landsurfer » 2 Jan 2017, 10:20pm

I went away ... Got involved with an alternative " touring cyclists club " and despite all their good intentions realised they were just trying to reinvent the wheel ... And that this is still the Cyclists' Touring Club Ltd..... So, better to fight from within than outside .....
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JohnW
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Re: Just 'Re-joined?' after THAT charity conversion debacle

Postby JohnW » 2 Jan 2017, 11:50pm

I never went away. I've been a member for 42 years now. I joined, after being on the periphery on the back of family connections, for many years. When I joined, CTC was a "Cyclists'" "Touring" "Club", with the accent on Cyclists, Touring (mainly long day touring rides, up to 180 mile days) and being a real members' Club.

What has happened, what the erstwhile 'club' has become and the dodgy (in my opinion) shenanigans of recent times I have found depressing and upsetting.............I could go on, and I have some misgivings about ethics.

However, it's past now, we've all had our say, although whether we've been listened to and whether we're of real consequence or not is another matter. The erstwhile CTC is all we've got and my personal decision is to stay with it, decide what we can support and support it, see what happens and hope for the best. We may find that loyalty has been appropriate.

Really, we've nowhere else to go. My reasons for joining were the togetherness and family spirit, which still pertains in our local section: the access to experienced and unbiased technical information and help (!!!!!!): the legal assistance in the event of a prang (which was worthy and good in the 1990s, but which I'm finding that to be quite unsatisfactory at the moment): York Rally (now held in contempt by the replacement of the CTC [CUK]); the 'Gazette'/'Cycletouring'/'Cycletouring and Campaigning'/'Cycle' (which I continue to admire and value, after a short tricky spell) - and now the campaigning.

Whatever those seeking admiration and votes in all places (Government, Councils, journalists,big-mouths) and at all levels say, cyclists are in enemy country and there's more campaigning to do than we imagine...........CUK could be in the forefront, and that's my hope for the future.

I'm sticking with it - although I await evidence that the new regime deserves us to "stick with it". I'll not submit another diatribe about the past.

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Re: Just 'Re-joined?' after THAT charity conversion debacle

Postby MartinC » 3 Jan 2017, 8:49am

deliquium wrote:.........Anyone else come to a similar conclusion?


I pretty much came to the same conclusion at the time and didn't leave. I don't think the charity conversion has benefitted society or the members but just allowed the charity industry professionals to polish their CV's. But at the end of the day it was the membership that let them so to a large extent it's reflection of the way we collectively behave as consumers. I hope CTC or CUK or whatever it is will survive and re-establish itself. The bottom line for me is that if CUK was starting from scratch today it's the sort of organisation that I'd probably want to support. The disappointment that it's not the club it was is tempered by the fact that the most valuable asset the club has is all you guys and you're still there. If a viable reincarnation of CTC were to emerge I'd have little problem leaving CUK beyond nostalgia.

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Re: Just 'Re-joined?' after THAT charity conversion debacle

Postby JohnW » 3 Jan 2017, 10:23am

MartinC wrote:.............. I don't think the charity conversion has benefitted society or the members but just allowed the charity industry professionals to polish their CV's..................


Yes, I think that about sums it up. Let's watch and hope for a Pheonix to rise from the ashes that remain from their destruction. We're receiving(by frequent-ish e-mails) encouraging news and notes of events organised around the country, by CUK, so let's see.

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Re: Just 'Re-joined?' after THAT charity conversion debacle

Postby Psamathe » 3 Jan 2017, 10:33am

JohnW wrote:
MartinC wrote:.............. I don't think the charity conversion has benefitted society or the members but just allowed the charity industry professionals to polish their CV's..................


Yes, I think that about sums it up. Let's watch and hope for a Pheonix to rise from the ashes that remain from their destruction. We're receiving(by frequent-ish e-mails) encouraging news and notes of events organised around the country, by CUK, so let's see.

I feel trend/direction is getting worse over time so "wait and see" will probably just mean watching things get worse.

Ian

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Re: Just 'Re-joined?' after THAT charity conversion debacle

Postby PH » 3 Jan 2017, 2:16pm

JohnW wrote:When I joined, CTC was a "Cyclists'" "Touring" "Club", with the accent on Cyclists, Touring (mainly long day touring rides, up to 180 mile days) and being a real members' Club..

What's been lost? Particularly with regard to touring? Who organised these rides? I've only been a member for half the yearsyou have, but in that time the only touring I've been aware of has been by local groups. Was there a time when national body organised these activities?
In the twenty years I've been a member it's always felt like two organisations, the member groups and the national organisation. Over the last couple of years there has been more support available to the groups, I hope this continues, I would very much like it to feel like one organisation, but there seems considerable suspicion on both sides that needs to be overcome.
I am primarily a member for the local activities and participate in those organised by several groups, it was always a simple decision for me to stay. If it wasn’t for the MGs it wouldn’t be so simple but I think I’d still be a member.
For anyone considering joining now, either a past member or returning one, I’d suggest basing that decision on what Cycling UK is now rather than what was once or may become in the future.
There is a lot of talk about the membership losing control to the executive, while that may be true, it’s equally true that the vast majority of the membership are not getting involved with those decisions. Maybe at some time in the past things were different, I’d like to see examples if someone believes that to be the case. There was a big fanfare that the last Trustee election received a record number of votes, which is a good start, but what was it? 5%?

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Re: Just 'Re-joined?' after THAT charity conversion debacle

Postby JohnW » 3 Jan 2017, 3:30pm

PH wrote:............What's been lost? Particularly with regard to touring? Who organised these rides? I've only been a member for half the yearsyou have, but in that time the only touring I've been aware of has been by local groups


......................
Oh dear - I said that I wasn't going to submit another diatribe......................what's been lost?...............different things to different people. For me, the knowledge that on Sundays we'd meet different groups of members from different areas, no arrangements, ships that pass in the night, cheery waves and a camaraderie. Standard rides, 50miles to 240 miles, nice and gentle, we'd meet members from other sections who we'd seen last year, friends - almost family. DAs (District Associations, not haircuts :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: ) under whose wing sections met and rode together; some years one section was strong and another weak, and other years it was the other way around, and friends from different but adjacent areas were organising events for each other and this was all part of our national ethos. The York Rally - a very major event - really attracting fellow members and comrades from around the country (and beyond) - it had to be experienced to be appreciated, but for various reasons (some possibly legitimate) it lost the support of the hierarchy (ironically, an independent group have restarted York Rally with some success, but the decision makers among CUK hierarchy show spite by supporting another national event on the same weekend). A members' handbook listing cafes, B&Bs, hotels and emergency help for members touring. The BCTC............... The Touring Advice Officer - along with the Technical Officer, who really was such a boon...............I could go on.........

But I don't want to go on with this. Everything changes - some espouse some changes while others regret them. This didn't start yesterday, it started 15(ish?) years ago but the new ethos spawned it's supporters who perpetuate change. I just think it's time to find what we can support, and support it. We can't turn the clock back. I've stated my opinion, I don't want to speak to it; all of us who felt badly and spoke badly on the Forum of the reorganisation/change of ethos/restructuring....whatever we may call it seem to have ceased to do so since the final decision was made. We've just got to get on with it. Campaigning has to be a priority now. I just hope that other areas have a Right-to-Ride officer as good as ours.

PH wrote:There is a lot of talk about the membership losing control to the executive, while that may be true, it’s equally true that the vast majority of the membership are not getting involved with those decisions. Maybe at some time in the past things were different, I’d like to see examples if someone believes that to be the case. There was a big fanfare that the last Trustee election received a record number of votes, which is a good start, but what was it? 5%?


I agree with you PH.

I really don't want to be the cause of this becoming a thread within a thread, I just wanted to support what the OP had said.

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Re: Just 'Re-joined?' after THAT charity conversion debacle

Postby PH » 3 Jan 2017, 5:54pm

JohnW wrote:what's been lost?...............different things to different people. For me, the knowledge that on Sundays we'd meet different groups of members from different areas, no arrangements, ships that pass in the night, cheery waves and a camaraderie. Standard rides, 50miles to 240 miles, nice and gentle, we'd meet members from other sections who we'd seen last year, friends - almost family. DAs (District Associations, not haircuts :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: ) under whose wing sections met and rode together; some years one section was strong and another weak, and other years it was the other way around, and friends from different but adjacent areas were organising events for each other and this was all part of our national ethos.

I recognise all of that from the past year, maybe it's a regional thing, I don't know. Some of the names have changed, my DA is now a Formal Member Group and the Sections are now Informal Member Groups, but as far as I can see the cycling is pretty much as its always been. In the last few months I've been to the Golden Beeches Weekend organised by South Bucks CTC, Leic CTC's Carol Service, Belton Mince Pie Run organised by East Midlands CTC, Audax rides run by three different CTC groups. Managed to add a few more points to my BCQ tally. Went to the members get together in Manchester, interesting and entertaining and saw the trophies for the various competitions awarded. That's not including those events organised by my local group, a ride most weeks, the Hill Climb and Freewheel Competition, a ride to the coast with transport back, the AGM lunch and a couple of Christmas dinners.
Nearly all of this stuff is organised by members, volunteers putting in the time, effort and enthusiasm, this has always been the case, always will be. National Office should support such action, advertise it, celebrate it, encourage it, fund it when needed, offer advice if asked for. It isn’t going to run it, I doubt it ever has, or ever will. My experience is that there is more support for local groups now than in the recent past and I welcome it.
The York Rally - a very major event - really attracting fellow members and comrades from around the country (and beyond) - it had to be experienced to be appreciated, but for various reasons (some possibly legitimate) it lost the support of the hierarchy (ironically, an independent group have restarted York Rally with some success, but the decision makers among CUK hierarchy show spite by supporting another national event on the same weekend).

I don’t know the history of York Rally, I went most years till it’s demise, TBH it always looked in danger of failing. I went because it was a nice ride, a place to meet folk, pick up some bargains and I enjoyed the service and parade. I understand in latter years it was run by a Member Group rather than centrally, I don’t know how long that had been the case. I suspect there were differences between what that MG and CTC wanted the event to be. There must have been some failure there between the two for it to come to an end, but I don’t know what that was. I’m glad it’s been resurrected, I’ve been both times and look forward to being there this year.
A members' handbook listing cafes, B&Bs, hotels and emergency help for members touring. The BCTC............... The Touring Advice Officer - along with the Technical Officer, who really was such a boon...............I could go on.........

Touring Officer – I’m sure there was a time when having someone gathering information to pass on was a huge benefit to the CTC. But IMO that was before my time, I sent off for a copy of the CTC E2E pack, but half an hour on the internet produced far better results. We live in an information age, if I can’t find something out for myself, I can find someone who can. IMO this is now a redundant role.
Technical Officer – Of all the decisions made in recent years, this one I just can’t understand. For an organisation proclaiming to be the Cyclists’ Champion not to have someone with technical expertise representing them on technical matters makes no sense to me.

I don’t think I’ll have anything to add to the subject after this post, though I’m not sure this is a thread within a thread. There are differences in peoples perceptions about what we have now and understanding those may influence someones decision whether to join or not. But it’s less than £3 a month and after a year they’ll have a better idea and can make their own mind up.

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deliquium
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Re: Just 'Re-joined?' after THAT charity conversion debacle

Postby deliquium » 3 Jan 2017, 6:26pm

PH wrote:But it’s less than £3 a month and after a year they’ll have a better idea and can make their own mind up.


This is partly why I chose to let go of the 'past' defunct club I once felt part of and belonged to - in an attempt to re-evaluate the NEW DIFFERENT (however ugly cheap dumb logo'd etc) 'conversion' to CUK

Most importantly to find a campaigning voice for cycling as a sensible solution to the many problems we heap upon ourselves (societal and health to name but two). And it seems simple cycling is a target for unscrupulous, selfish little minded and ill informed sections of law makers and breakers. Pah!

I'll re-evaluate my subscription in a year's time - and re-adjust my hopes = normal human :wink:

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Re: Just 'Re-joined?' after THAT charity conversion debacle

Postby JohnW » 3 Jan 2017, 8:33pm

deliquium wrote:...............I'll re-evaluate my subscription in a year's time - and re-adjust my hopes = normal human ..............


In reasonable honesty I think that, even with the best of intentions it'll take more than a year.

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Re: Just 'Re-joined?' after THAT charity conversion debacle

Postby mjr » 4 Jan 2017, 2:04pm

JohnW wrote:Really, we've nowhere else to go.

Surely that's not true? Depending on your interests and location, as well as the various phoenix attempts, there are the various cycle campaigns (mostly - but not all - in the Cyclenation grouping) and lively semi-detached affiliate groups, or if there isn't one locally, you can start one... plus there's always HSBC UK British Cycling, but they seem to be in an even worse state than CUK so I can understand anyone not jumping into that fire.
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