Just 'Re-joined?' after THAT charity conversion debacle

JohnW
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Re: Just 'Re-joined?' after THAT charity conversion debacle

Postby JohnW » 5 Jan 2017, 12:03am

mjr wrote:
JohnW wrote:Really, we've nowhere else to go.

Surely that's not true? Depending on your interests and location, as well as the various phoenix attempts, there are the various cycle campaigns (mostly - but not all - in the Cyclenation grouping) and lively semi-detached affiliate groups, or if there isn't one locally, you can start one... plus there's always HSBC UK British Cycling, but they seem to be in an even worse state than CUK so I can understand anyone not jumping into that fire.


Well, it's true for me.

Forgetting shortcomings, CUK is a developed national organisation with (in my area) a strong, varied and friendly local section which understands and supports utility cycling - not competitive. CUK is involved (hopefully increasingly) in campaigning and has contacts at high level. How well it acts and behaves is another matter, but it's wait and see now.

Disappointed as I am with recent developments, and for all it's shortcomings, CUK is still better for me that BC. How BC will be in 5 years time, no longer having SKY money is a big question, but I wish BC all the best - and closer ties with CUK.

Edwards
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Re: Just 'Re-joined?' after THAT charity conversion debacle

Postby Edwards » 5 Jan 2017, 9:13am

We have not rejoined and continue with membership of The Tandem Club.

I do not like the principle of me paying for professional charity employees that might not support the aims of the charity but support their own employment goals.
Plus I am very unhappy at the way the power has been transferred to the professional charity employees.

For me a simple question is do they ride a bike regularly? If not how do they know about cycling or touring?
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deliquium
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Re: Just 'Re-joined?' after THAT charity conversion debacle

Postby deliquium » 5 Jan 2017, 9:18am

JohnW wrote:
mjr wrote:
JohnW wrote:Really, we've nowhere else to go.

Surely that's not true? Depending on your interests and location, as well as the various phoenix attempts, there are the various cycle campaigns (mostly - but not all - in the Cyclenation grouping) and lively semi-detached affiliate groups, or if there isn't one locally, you can start one... plus there's always HSBC UK British Cycling, but they seem to be in an even worse state than CUK so I can understand anyone not jumping into that fire.


Well, it's true for me.

Forgetting shortcomings, CUK is a developed national organisation which understands and supports utility cycling - not competitive. CUK is involved (hopefully increasingly) in campaigning and has contacts at high level. How well it acts and behaves is another matter, but it's wait and see now.

Disappointed as I am with recent developments, and for all it's shortcomings, CUK is still better for me that BC. How BC will be in 5 years time, no longer having SKY money is a big question, but I wish BC all the best - and closer ties with CUK.


This sums up my reasoning for choosing to re-join.
Last edited by deliquium on 5 Jan 2017, 9:37am, edited 1 time in total.
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Si
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Re: Just 'Re-joined?' after THAT charity conversion debacle

Postby Si » 5 Jan 2017, 9:31am

JohnW wrote:
mjr wrote:
JohnW wrote:Really, we've nowhere else to go.

Surely that's not true? Depending on your interests and location, as well as the various phoenix attempts, there are the various cycle campaigns (mostly - but not all - in the Cyclenation grouping) and lively semi-detached affiliate groups, or if there isn't one locally, you can start one... plus there's always HSBC UK British Cycling, but they seem to be in an even worse state than CUK so I can understand anyone not jumping into that fire.


Well, it's true for me.

Forgetting shortcomings, CUK is a developed national organisation with (in my area) a strong, varied and friendly local section which understands and supports utility cycling - not competitive. CUK is involved (hopefully increasingly) in campaigning and has contacts at high level. How well it acts and behaves is another matter, but it's wait and see now.

Disappointed as I am with recent developments, and for all it's shortcomings, CUK is still better for me that BC. How BC will be in 5 years time, no longer having SKY money is a big question, but I wish BC all the best - and closer ties with CUK.


BC will be very healthy as its getting more money from HSBC than from sky, and the HSBC money isn't being concentrated on the upper levels of cycle sport, rather they are keen to see BC develop in the areas of grassroots leisure and utility cycling. In my city bc is already teaching more non-cyclists to ride than any other organisation, it's setting up inner city community groups and it's even assisting cuk with some of it's projects where cuk lacks particular expertise.

Of course, right now bc is still very much a sports organisation and doesn't offer exactly what many recreational or utility might want........but it's changing slowly.

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Re: Just 'Re-joined?' after THAT charity conversion debacle

Postby Psamathe » 5 Jan 2017, 10:18am

Edwards wrote:We have not rejoined and continue with membership of The Tandem Club.

I do not like the principle of me paying for professional charity employees that might not support the aims of the charity but support their own employment goals.
Plus I am very unhappy at the way the power has been transferred to the professional charity employees.
...

I would agree. CTC is getting worse in this regard so unless people are happy about those charity professionals having control then as mjr has said, there are alternatives (and good alternatives).

Ian

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Re: Just 'Re-joined?' after THAT charity conversion debacle

Postby JohnW » 5 Jan 2017, 11:04am

Psamathe wrote:
Edwards wrote:We have not rejoined and continue with membership of The Tandem Club.

I do not like the principle of me paying for professional charity employees that might not support the aims of the charity but support their own employment goals.
Plus I am very unhappy at the way the power has been transferred to the professional charity employees.

For me a simple question is do they ride a bike regularly? If not how do they know about cycling or touring?
...

I would agree. CTC is getting worse in this regard so unless people are happy about those charity professionals having control then as mjr has said, there are alternatives (and good alternatives).

Ian


I too agree with Edwards - he's put it better than ever I could. This is why my "wait and see" is almost a caveat to "sticking with it". We just have to wait and see.

In fact - will Edwards's post be put before the 'Trustees' or whatever they're called? Will there be a response? Part of the "wait and see" has to be "wait and see whether the decision makers are aware of, and sensitive to, members' concerns"? We'll have to wait and see.

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Re: Just 'Re-joined?' after THAT charity conversion debacle

Postby Psamathe » 5 Jan 2017, 11:17am

JohnW wrote:
Psamathe wrote:
Edwards wrote:We have not rejoined and continue with membership of The Tandem Club.

I do not like the principle of me paying for professional charity employees that might not support the aims of the charity but support their own employment goals.
Plus I am very unhappy at the way the power has been transferred to the professional charity employees.

For me a simple question is do they ride a bike regularly? If not how do they know about cycling or touring?
...

I would agree. CTC is getting worse in this regard so unless people are happy about those charity professionals having control then as mjr has said, there are alternatives (and good alternatives).

Ian


I too agree with Edwards - he's put it better than ever I could. This is why my "wait and see" is almost a caveat to "sticking with it". We just have to wait and see.

In fact - will Edwards's post be put before the 'Trustees' or whatever they're called? Will there be a response? Part of the "wait and see" has to be "wait and see whether the decision makers are aware of, and sensitive to, members' concerns"? We'll have to wait and see.

If you look at their (trustees) reaction to significant disquiet about the re-branding (given how they decided not to ask the membership), I can't see a complete turnaround happening anytime soon - particularly with the "Thought Police" now deciding who can and who cannot stand for election to try to become a Trustee.

Wasn't it Einstein that said "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results ?

Ian

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Re: Just 'Re-joined?' after THAT charity conversion debacle

Postby mjr » 5 Jan 2017, 11:29am

JohnW wrote:I too agree with Edwards - he's put it better than ever I could. This is why my "wait and see" is almost a caveat to "sticking with it". We just have to wait and see.

In fact - will Edwards's post be put before the 'Trustees' or whatever they're called? Will there be a response? Part of the "wait and see" has to be "wait and see whether the decision makers are aware of, and sensitive to, members' concerns"? We'll have to wait and see.

It'll probably only be put before the trustees if you put it there. I think the most recent past trustee to consistently participate on this forum has been banned from it now.

I guess the difference between JohnW and Edwards is that one has no local or interest alternative and the other does. FWIW, I see CUK as campaigning less not more, with former CTC campaigners now working through local campaign groups instead, while CUK's campaigns seem to be drifting away from the aim of a cycling transport network and getting confused with the old idea of on-road always being best.
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Re: Just 'Re-joined?' after THAT charity conversion debacle

Postby PH » 5 Jan 2017, 12:51pm

Edwards wrote:For me a simple question is do they ride a bike regularly?

And what is the answer to that simple question? All those I've come into contact with are regular cyclists. Maybe you know different?

JohnW
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Re: Just 'Re-joined?' after THAT charity conversion debacle

Postby JohnW » 5 Jan 2017, 2:28pm

PH wrote:
Edwards wrote:For me a simple question is do they ride a bike regularly?

And what is the answer to that simple question? All those I've come into contact with are regular cyclists. Maybe you know different?


Yeah - but isn't the power in the hands of those we don't come into contact with?

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Re: Just 'Re-joined?' after THAT charity conversion debacle

Postby PH » 5 Jan 2017, 2:31pm

JohnW wrote:
PH wrote:
Edwards wrote:For me a simple question is do they ride a bike regularly?

And what is the answer to that simple question? All those I've come into contact with are regular cyclists. Maybe you know different?


Yeah - but isn't the power in the hands of those we don't come into contact with?

:?: Who?

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Re: Just 'Re-joined?' after THAT charity conversion debacle

Postby JohnW » 5 Jan 2017, 6:11pm

PH wrote:
JohnW wrote:
PH wrote:And what is the answer to that simple question? All those I've come into contact with are regular cyclists. Maybe you know different?


Yeah - but isn't the power in the hands of those we don't come into contact with?

:?: Who?


Good question - I'm in regular contact with members of all units of our section (known in PC circles as Member Group). Within our section, no-one wields power - we have a committee - we're all friends - we listen to each other and members' wishes and interests are, without exception, our priority. We're the local set-up. We have no power over the faceless ones who must have their own way. I am not confident that our one remaining councillor, who is excellent and attentive, and attends our AGMs, and sometimes rides with us, is not ignored by those who must have their own way. He doesn't gossip, but he seems frustrated. It's those at (what they seem to believe is) top level that we don't come into contact with...........................those who ignore AGM resolutions.

But hey - I'm not going to post on this thread again - I seem to be the one who started this sub-thread and I was only saying that I'm sticking with it and will wait and see...............and I regret what I've started..........it really is time to move forward. However, I feel no incentive to re-direct part of my income taxes..................even though I personally am certain that the desire for the extra money was the raison d'etre behind the disastrous decision to charitise in the first place.

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Re: Just 'Re-joined?' after THAT charity conversion debacle

Postby GPC » 5 Jan 2017, 9:33pm

gaz wrote:Welcome back Paul.

I also never went away.


Good for you Julie, glad we are both here. Happy New Year

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Re: Just 'Re-joined?' after THAT charity conversion debacle

Postby gaz » 5 Jan 2017, 10:08pm

GPC wrote:Good for you Julie, glad we are both here. Happy New Year

Well, it's been about twenty years since I was told that I don't look like a Helen. I never realised that my posts read like they're from a Julie :wink: .

Happy New Year to you too.

BTW I was welcoming Paul, the opening poster, back to the CTC :) .
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Re: Just 'Re-joined?' after THAT charity conversion debacle

Postby GPC » 6 Jan 2017, 9:32am

gaz wrote:
GPC wrote:Good for you Julie, glad we are both here. Happy New Year

Well, it's been about twenty years since I was told that I don't look like a Helen. I never realised that my posts read like they're from a Julie :wink: .

Happy New Year to you too.

BTW I was welcoming Paul, the opening poster, back to the CTC :) .


Sincere apologies to you gaz, wrong person (me trying to be clever always fails). Thank you for taking it in good spirit.