Who ceased CTC membership after charity conversion, etc. ?

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ferrit worrier
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Re: Who ceased CTC membership after charity conversion, etc. ?

Postby ferrit worrier » 18 Mar 2017, 11:28am

I did get a reminder to renew my membership at the full rate, the reminder arrived after my 65th birthday and not at the concession rate.
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Si
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Re: Who ceased CTC membership after charity conversion, etc. ?

Postby Si » 18 Mar 2017, 11:42am

pete75 wrote:
Si wrote: its doing new stuff that i think is wonderful....stuff that unfortunatly the average member isnt directly exposed to. For instance the Community Cycle Clubs in inner city deprived areas. So im still bearing with it.


That's part of the problem for traditional CTC members, Cycling UK is doing stuff with their money which is completely irrelevant to them and yet it's their subscriptions that are paying. Do people have to pay the membership fee in order to participate in Community Cycle Clubs?


i didnt say that it was irrelevant to the average member, i said they they were not directly exposed to it....big difference.

pete75
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Re: Who ceased CTC membership after charity conversion, etc. ?

Postby pete75 » 18 Mar 2017, 11:49am

Si wrote:
pete75 wrote:
Si wrote: its doing new stuff that i think is wonderful....stuff that unfortunatly the average member isnt directly exposed to. For instance the Community Cycle Clubs in inner city deprived areas. So im still bearing with it.


That's part of the problem for traditional CTC members, Cycling UK is doing stuff with their money which is completely irrelevant to them and yet it's their subscriptions that are paying. Do people have to pay the membership fee in order to participate in Community Cycle Clubs?


i didnt say that it was irrelevant to the average member, i said they they were not directly exposed to it....big difference.


Something like that to which you're not exposed to and never likely to be is irrelevant to all intents and purposes. Do you know if the participants have to pay CTC membership fee

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Si
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Re: Who ceased CTC membership after charity conversion, etc. ?

Postby Si » 18 Mar 2017, 12:06pm

pete75 wrote:
Si wrote:
pete75 wrote:
That's part of the problem for traditional CTC members, Cycling UK is doing stuff with their money which is completely irrelevant to them and yet it's their subscriptions that are paying. Do people have to pay the membership fee in order to participate in Community Cycle Clubs?


i didnt say that it was irrelevant to the average member, i said they they were not directly exposed to it....big difference.


Something like that to which you're not exposed to and never likely to be is irrelevant to all intents and purposes. Do you know if the participants have to pay CTC membership fee


you seem to have lost the word 'directly' there. And yes, i do know.

Psamathe
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Re: Who ceased CTC membership after charity conversion, etc. ?

Postby Psamathe » 18 Mar 2017, 12:18pm

I ceased membership after the charity conversion. Though I was not a member at the time of the charity conversion so that conversion was not the reason I left. I left because of the poor way (from an employment perspective) that the organisation discarded CJ. When staff are made redundant a professional company manages it far better than the CTC did - which demonstrated to me a level of incompetence meaning they will never achieve much. That, on top of their ignoring members, not responding to emails, not having (or accepting volunteer help with) areas they have no in-house experience in, etc., etc.. The issues seemed to correspond with the new CEO taking over.

It all cumulatively added up to an organisation poorly managed without the skills to achieve real change ... so I left.

And from what I've seen since, things continue to get worse.

Ian

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Re: Who ceased CTC membership after charity conversion, etc. ?

Postby pete75 » 18 Mar 2017, 12:47pm

Si wrote:
pete75 wrote:
Si wrote:
i didnt say that it was irrelevant to the average member, i said they they were not directly exposed to it....big difference.


Something like that to which you're not exposed to and never likely to be is irrelevant to all intents and purposes. Do you know if the participants have to pay CTC membership fee


you seem to have lost the word 'directly' there. And yes, i do know.


The word directly is irrelevant to all but a pedant. So to make you happy, something like that to which you're not directly exposed to and never likely to be is irrelevant to all intents and purposes.

Do the participants have to pay the membership fee?

thirdcrank
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Re: Who ceased CTC membership after charity conversion, etc. ?

Postby thirdcrank » 18 Mar 2017, 12:59pm

I'm getting a bit confused here because I thought the whole idea of supporting a charity was altruism. If you're in it for your own benefit, that's OK but you need to be in a membership club.

There's been a conversion from one to the other and the only approach to forwards .... looking ahead. The important consideration is how much of each subscription goes to the benefit of others and in a charity, the more the better.

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gaz
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Re: Who ceased thread participation after the thread was rebranded?

Postby gaz » 18 Mar 2017, 1:21pm

pete75 wrote:Do the participants have to pay the membership fee?

You can find some slighlty dated information on CTC Community Cycle Clubs here.

The "model" is based around CTC delivering cycle projects to local communities upon receipt of local authority and/or other external funding. It is a very different "model" to a CTC Member Group and whilst I've no personal experience, I can see nothing to indicate that individuals need CTC Membership to take part.

I would anticipate each CCC has its own local "membership" criteria which may or may not involve a local "membership" fee.
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Psamathe
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Re: Who ceased CTC membership after charity conversion, etc. ?

Postby Psamathe » 18 Mar 2017, 1:32pm

thirdcrank wrote:I'm getting a bit confused here because I thought the whole idea of supporting a charity was altruism. If you're in it for your own benefit, that's OK but you need to be in a membership club.
....

In the UK the issue of "charities" seems weird (to me). Some are altruistic whilst others seem less so yet are still considered and have the benefits of e.g. tax perks through being a "charity". The astronomy club I'm a member of is a charity and whilst it does a fair amount of outreach work, this costs nothing (beyond volunteer time) and the financial needs are for facilities used by members - so in effect my membership fee is a payment to a charity and is for my personal benefit. My kayaking club is not a charity. And maybe we should not raise "Public Schools" ....

I think there are a range of "charities" some focusing more on member benefits, others on altruistic aims, others employing highly paid staff swallowing up significant sums ...

Although before my time, I understood that in the CTC club to charity debates, those against the change were reassured that "nothing would change" except the club would be financially better off through the charity tax perks.

Ian

thirdcrank
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Re: Who ceased CTC membership after charity conversion, etc. ?

Postby thirdcrank » 18 Mar 2017, 1:52pm

AFAIK, the pre-conversion threads are all still there, with more than my fair share from me.

History.
===============================================
Edit to add: All still there in a sub-forum all of its own, a total of some 160 threads - 94(?) pre-conversion, 66 (?) about the "brand refresh." (Could be 96:64 but that doesn't affect the point.) That's all in addition to more recent threads which have resurrected the subject like a sort of historical re-enactment society.

As I said, history.

Bill Reynolds
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Re: Who ceased CTC membership after charity conversion, etc. ?

Postby Bill Reynolds » 18 Mar 2017, 5:42pm

I left as 'charity' usually means 'job creation scheme' and I don't/did not want to pay for such a thing. I was approached by the CTC later to sign a form so this charity could claim tax or something on my membership fee. I often wonder who it was in the past who had the original idea to dump the club and become a charity??!

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gaz
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Re: Who ceased CTC membership after charity conversion, etc. ?

Postby gaz » 18 Mar 2017, 5:53pm

Bill Reynolds wrote:I often wonder who it was in the past who had the original idea to dump the club and become a charity??!

Motion 9 at the 2009 AGM.
Proposed by D. Cox on behalf of the Council, seconded by D. Butler
CTC AGM recognises that there are some difficulties with the current structure of Club and Trust for the governance of CTC, its activities, companies, member groups and for the benefits that may accrue from charitable status. This AGM mandates National Council to:
a) formally evaluate options with respect to CTC’s current and future charitable status and the operation of the Club, its companies and its charitable activities;
b) circulate a paper to the CTC membership clearly establishing the advantages and limitations of viable options, including a recommendation for future form and relationships, no later than October 2009;
c) present motions to the 2010 AGM enabling
implementation of the preferred option;

Motion was passed by a vote of the members. I'm sure there are other opinions on when and how it all began.

Posted on behalf of the CTC Charity Conversion Historical Re-enactment Society.
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De Sisti
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Re: Who ceased CTC membership after charity conversion, etc. ?

Postby De Sisti » 18 Mar 2017, 9:44pm

Me. With British Cycling now.

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Si
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Re: Who ceased CTC membership after charity conversion, etc. ?

Postby Si » 19 Mar 2017, 4:08pm

pete75 wrote:
Si wrote:
pete75 wrote:
Something like that to which you're not exposed to and never likely to be is irrelevant to all intents and purposes. Do you know if the participants have to pay CTC membership fee


you seem to have lost the word 'directly' there. And yes, i do know.


The word directly is irrelevant to all but a pedant. So to make you happy, something like that to which you're not directly exposed to and never likely to be is irrelevant to all intents and purposes.

Do the participants have to pay the membership fee?


Well, of course the word is relivent. Would you rather benefit from something indirectly or not at all? For instance i dont go out riding with a CCC so I dont benefit from it directly, but one of the indirect benefits i get from the 11 local CCCs is that they have brought in loads of good publicity for BCR, thus strenghtening its position in cabinet at the council......this in turn has led to a number of cycling projects getting through that will beneift me....such as the fully segregated, quality cycleway that i'll be able to use to get into worrk.

Basically more bums on saddles makes the cycling lobby more politically powerful....something that must benefit us all. And if they are higher profile bums, so much the better.

As for membership fees - CCCs work in a similar way to cuk affiliate groups, apart from the fact that they get a lot of investment from local authorities.

hazychris
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Re: Who ceased CTC membership after charity conversion, etc. ?

Postby hazychris » 22 Apr 2017, 1:47pm

I'm afraid I left, partly as a result of the charitable status conversion, and partly because of the awful CUK rebranding, and partly because the member group I'd heavily invested effort in had become regressive.

British Cycling ticks the boxes for me now, seems better focused in campaigning, supports clubs better (yes - I set up a new club under BC) and despite the highly publicised "package-gate" is run efficiently, effectively and most importantly transparently.

It has been sad to see the "transformation" of CTC over the last 5+ years.