When will P Tuohy Leave?

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gaz
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Postby gaz » 28 Dec 2019, 10:36am

Tinpotflowers wrote:But why are people joining BC and not CUK?

I can't help but feel that the multi-million pound HSBC UK sponsorship of British Cycling and the financial support it receives from Sport England may give British Cycling a slight edge on their advertising budget.

Perhaps that could go some way to explaining it?

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Re: When will P Tuohy Leave?

Postby PH » 28 Dec 2019, 12:48pm

RickH wrote:Arguably they do more for inexperienced cyclists than Cycling UK through the Let's Ride (formerly Sky Ride) programme. Are there many (any) member groups that regularly organise rides of less than 15 miles, sometimes less than 10? No 3 rides & you have to join up either.

There's also the Community Cycle Clubs, not something I know much about, though as I now have more time on my hands I may investigate further.
https://www.cyclinguk.org/community-cycle-clubs

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Re: When will P Tuohy Leave?

Postby PH » 28 Dec 2019, 1:25pm

Tinpotflowers wrote:But why are people joining BC and not CUK?

People will join for all sorts of reasons, some will way up the value of the benefits, others will want to support those things they consider important, for a proportion it's a requirement to take part in some activity. If all things are equal, people will probably join the one they most identify with, go have a browse of their websites, no need to read them, just flick through a couple of pages. Which images do you think the cycling enthusiasts you see out and about most identify with?
Why should they cooperate? Where they have common ground it would be a better use of resources and give a bigger voice. What do we gain from the rivalry?

Without wishing to stir things up too much - The dilemma for a touring club is you don't need a club to go touring. I ride with a successful member group, they have 250+ rides a year, plenty of variety, but it doesn't attract the same numbers as the local road clubs, nor does it ever expect to.

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Re: When will P Tuohy Leave?

Postby Paulatic » 28 Dec 2019, 1:32pm

PH wrote:[
There's also the Community Cycle Clubs, not something I know much about, though as I now have more time on my hands I may investigate further.
https://www.cyclinguk.org/community-cycle-clubs


I find these claims from CUK very annoying
Cycling UK is enabling millions more people to cycle
If it were true where are they all?
How many million, one, two , three or just substitute any figure you want.
More than what number did they start with.
I’m sure I read something recently about community groups in Birmingham The article listed the name of group and membership number. A rough count got it just over 200 people. So if a large city like Birmingham can boast 200 people how do you end up with millions? It’s beyond me and I’d guess whoever hands out their government subsidy might question the claims one day.
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Re: When will P Tuohy Leave?

Postby PH » 28 Dec 2019, 1:45pm

Paulatic wrote:I find these claims from CUK very annoying
Cycling UK is enabling millions more people to cycle
If it were true where are they all?
How many million, one, two , three or just substitute any figure you want.

Me too, though that doesn't mean I'll dismiss it all on the basis of some dodgy figures.
What I find more annoying is when other parties are not acknowledged as sharing the credit that Cycling UK claim.

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Re: When will P Tuohy Leave?

Postby Si » 28 Dec 2019, 2:54pm

I think the enabling millions is a somewhat vague statement....just because you put in place assistance to get millions to do something it doesnt mean they will.

Likewise the info given, above, about community groups in birmingham looks suspect. There may well be a community club in brum with 200 members, however there are over 20 community clubs in birmingham, some big, others small, plus a fair few affiliate groups too. The only remaining IIRC member group in brum has about 200 members, CUK community and affiliate groups ?may? have 10 times or more this between them.....most of their members are not CUK members. Thus we might conclude that membership numbers are not a direct indicator of the progress that a club is making in terms of getting bums on saddles.

The same could be said of BC. In brum they probably dont have that many members but the programme that i coordinated for them got 1000s of people riding or back to riding, and that's just one small part of what they do. Id guess that hardly any of the people who went through that programme joined BC (apart from those who became ride leaders and got free membership).

For my part, YMMV, i'm more interested in what either organisation is doing in terms of getting people riding in my town than what their membership numbers are. And i think that if they concentrate on increasing the numbers of people on bikes rather than their own membership numbers, well, that's good isnt it?

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Re: When will P Tuohy Leave?

Postby Paulatic » 28 Dec 2019, 3:52pm

I take the point about 'enabling' but still say it’s a rubbish description of achievement. I could say I left a field gate open enabling millions to walk across the field. Truth is where I live that might be one person.
Very interesting since posting my comment the link to the list and number of members in Brum community clubs is now no longer valid. The requested page "/project/community-cycle-clubs" could not be found.
The intro to the link still maintains '11 thriving Community Cycle Clubs' so I’ll assume the other 9 @Si mentions have died a death like a lot of links to clubs boasted to be affiliated to CUK.
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Re:

Postby mattheus » 28 Dec 2019, 4:25pm

gaz wrote:
Tinpotflowers wrote:But why are people joining BC and not CUK?

I can't help but feel that the multi-million pound HSBC UK sponsorship of British Cycling and the financial support it receives from Sport England may give British Cycling a slight edge on their advertising budget.

Perhaps that could go some way to explaining it?


Very likely!

And don't forget the huge budget that SKY TV put into promoting our foremost British Cyclists; this is clearly going to rub-off on British Cycling more than any other biking organisation. Chris Hoy, Pendleton, Brad Wiggins, Chris Froome, G Thomas ... it all tracks quite closely to growth in UK cycling.

I don't see that CTC has been lax in attracting members - their growth shows this - but BC is currently on a purple streak with their high-profile sporting success.

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Re: When will P Tuohy Leave?

Postby mattheus » 28 Dec 2019, 4:28pm

Paulatic wrote:I take the point about 'enabling' but still say it’s a rubbish description of achievement. I could say I left a field gate open enabling millions to walk across the field. Truth is where I live that might be one person.


OK, thought experiment, dream a little Paul:

It's Jan 3rd, we've elected you to P Tuohy's job. What's YOUR plan? What metrics will you impress us with?
Last edited by Graham on 28 Dec 2019, 7:51pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: When will P Tuohy Leave?

Postby Tinpotflowers » 28 Dec 2019, 6:29pm

It was mentioned above that people join the group they identified with. what is CUK id, I meet a cycle inspector who said that the CTC is load of old men going out on Dawes Galaxy's. As anything changes?

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Re: When will P Tuohy Leave?

Postby gaz » 28 Dec 2019, 7:39pm

Tinpotflowers wrote:what is CUK id,

Apparently 68,000 people identify with Cycling UK and 150,000 with British Cycling. Of course some of those people identify with both, myself included*.


*BC 'fan' member since last June, 12 months membership absolutely free. I believe the term is "loss leader". Did I mention something earlier about a substantial disparity in marketing budgets.

Edit: typo
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Re: When will P Tuohy Leave?

Postby Graham » 28 Dec 2019, 7:53pm

Tinpotflowers wrote: I meet a cycle inspector . . . . .

A cycle inspector !! What is a cycle inspector ?

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Re: When will P Tuohy Leave?

Postby gaz » 28 Dec 2019, 8:05pm

Graham wrote:What is a cycle inspector ?

:wink:

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Re: When will P Tuohy Leave?

Postby PH » 28 Dec 2019, 8:51pm

Tinpotflowers wrote:It was mentioned above that people join the group they identified with. what is CUK id, I meet a cycle inspector who said that the CTC is load of old men going out on Dawes Galaxy's. As anything changes?

It was suggested you look at their websites and see which you most identify with, instead you've chosen to listen to some character who's opinions are probably as old as my Carradice :wink:

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Re: When will P Tuohy Leave?

Postby Paulatic » 28 Dec 2019, 9:36pm

mattheus wrote:
Paulatic wrote:I take the point about 'enabling' but still say it’s a rubbish description of achievement. I could say I left a field gate open enabling millions to walk across the field. Truth is where I live that might be one person.


OK, thought experiment, dream a little Paul:

It's Jan 3rd, we've elected you to P Tuohy's job what's YOUR plan? What metrics will you impress us with?

:lol: :lol: You’ve just elected the wrong man for the job. The dream would turn into a nightmare as my dreams are founded on an older body in a rural location which CUK gave up catering for years ago.
Impressing people has never been high on my agenda. I’d have to tell it like it is whatever the facts are which on my first day on the job they all seem a little vague and ambiguous. IMO I’d suggest this is counterproductive. So much written material appears short on substance and grasping on a few straws. It often gives the impression of a company advertising just before it goes bust.

When we report and support cycling initiatives let’s apportion credits where due and cut out creative writing. Highlight our own initiatives without there being any doubt. Make ourselves invaluable, whether it be to weathered cyclists or novices, and not just appearing a level of management which could be cut in hard times. Let’s do some house keeping and get rid of those 'club' entries in our listings which were formed with some enthusiasm created with our encouragement which haven’t developed into active involvement. Until we recognise this wastage and it’s cause then we can’t address it correctly.
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